Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

155mm/52cal ATAGS Howitzer Successfully Tested

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by Chanakya's_Chant, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Country Flag:
    India
    KALYANIs ATAGS looks more refined
    BTW why there is duplication of efforts?
     
    kiduva21 and Abingdonboy like this.
  2. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    211
    Country Flag:
    India
    to get the best of everyone through competition, which is the global norm

    in a funny note : beginning of the end of reservation / quota system in defence sector (development and manufacturing) :)
     
  3. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Country Flag:
    India
    But its waste of valuable resources like manpower, money and time when there is a lots of things to do in limited resources.
    Division of labor I mean
     
  4. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,580
    Likes Received:
    9,106
    Country Flag:
    India
    This is how most business/work culture should be and is in any corporate field. In India and anywhere else. Competition is good.

    A single-vendor situation always breeds incompetence, especially in the Indian scene.
     
  5. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Country Flag:
    India
    No doubt competition ensurrs better quality product. But it also cause waste of valuable resources
     
  6. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    211
    Country Flag:
    India
    simply put ,

    competition leads to innovation which most of the times (though not always) will lead to new cost cutting and innovative features , if there is even 50% overhead in development costs due to duplication via competition , the same costs overrun can be converted to 50% profit during productionization and cost savings during the operational life cycle of the said weapon system via innovative features, designs, best practices ... etc which came up / got implemented and selected due to competition. ( note :i gave the figures to give a general idea)

    basically this is how nature works "survival of the fittest, selection of the best - how ? through competition"
    and nothing beats mother nature and her efficiency :azn:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  7. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    686
    Country Flag:
    India
    Not exactly. With a huge requirement of more than 3000 guns we can distribute the order between those two to ensure faster induction and may be for exports in future. With 1500 guns for each of those two companies it will be more than viable to start a production line.
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,479
    Likes Received:
    14,905
    Country Flag:
    India
    IMHO, it will be better to let OFB, TATA, Kalyani produce some parts of this gun and rest all is given to MSMEs for production. Let each of them have a final assembly line also. This will ensure that we add about 18-20 guns every month. Kalyani group says that they have the ability to make 2 barrels everyday for 155mm 52 calibre gun.
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,580
    Likes Received:
    9,106
    Country Flag:
    India
    It could be possible to keep the design & production houses separate, allow both companies to come up with competing designs, and the winning design can be produced by both companies through production-engineering ToT. This would ensure competitive designs keep emerging, and would also make most of any active production capacity.

    However, this would allow for some room for theft of design data...so any critical component will have to be made by the OEM itself and supplied to other production agencies for final assembly.
     
    lca-fan and vstol jockey like this.
  10. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,077
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    Country Flag:
    India

    Subcontractors of OFB, TATA, and Kalyani are MSMEs. They do not produce whole gun in house, probably do not produce anything, but just assemble parts produced by their subcontractors.
     
    Abingdonboy and vstol jockey like this.
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,479
    Likes Received:
    14,905
    Country Flag:
    India
    This is what I actually meant. making gun barrels is a very specialised job and requires very high amount of investment but making other systems like components of recoil system, APU etc can be outsourced while the gun itself being assembled at 2-3 locations by 2-3 manufacturers. Our needs are large and we are way behind schedule to induct these guns.
     
  12. Vidyanshu

    Vidyanshu Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    185
    The runner-up are sometimes made secondary contractor in such programmes.
     
  13. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Country Flag:
    India
    Tata is big company. May be If govt. allow them they have better chance to grab export orders
     
  14. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2016
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    1,309
    Country Flag:
    India
    same reason why so many students learn the same course. the final test decides who is at the top.. and the winner gets the job. If the students already know that their position is guaranteed, they wont work to their potential and wont try to push themselves harder.

    This amount of resources are required to push innovation, development and remove complacency.
     
  15. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    1,464
    Country Flag:
    India
    courtesy to @water car engineer and @juggernautjatt from PDF

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Left one prototype is developed by Kalyani Group and the right one is developed by TATA Power SED. Apart from some cosmetic differences, the main addition in the Kalyani Group's prototype is an autoloader from ELBIT first seen on their Bharath 52 howitzer showcased during last year's DefExpo. Take a look at circled part in pic.

    [​IMG]
     
    Inactive and Sathya like this.

Share This Page