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5th-generation fighter plan hits hurdle as Russia hikes cost

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Manmohan Yadav, Jul 15, 2013.

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  1. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    India’s biggest defence project in the making, the critical joint development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia, has flown into some rough weather.

    Defence ministry sources said the inking of the final design and R&D contract for the stealth fighter has been hit by a huge delay, with Russia also jacking up costs for the futuristic project. “It’s very unlikely the FGFA final design contract will be concluded in the 2013-2014 fiscal,†said a source.

    This contract was to be inked in 2012 as per the then revised timeline after completion of the preliminary design contract (PD C) phase. India will eventually end up spending close to $35 billion over the next two decades to induct over 200 such “swing-role†fighters.

    [​IMG]

    The plan till last year was that India would begin inducting the FGFA from 2022 onwards, with IAF test pilots getting three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for trials at the Hindustan Aeronautics manufacturing facility at Ozar.

    “The timeframes will now have to be revised. MoD has established a committee of specialists and finance officials to verify the rise in costs. An internal contract negotiation committee is also in progress,†said the source.

    But India remains firm about rejecting the US offer for joining its Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) or the F-35 ‘Lightning-II’ programme. “A lot of money and time has been invested in the FGFA with Russia. India simply cannot afford two FGFAs, both financially as well as logistically†he said.

    The 18-month PDC worth $295 million for the FGFA with Russia was inked in December 2010, under which Indian designers and scientists have even been stationed in Russia to work out the blueprints and documentation for the fighter.

    Though the Indian “perspective multi-role fighter†will be based on the Russian single-seat FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA, which now has four prototypes flying, it will be tweaked to IAF requirements. IAF had initially pitched for 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat fighters but will go for only single-cockpit jets now to reduce costs as well as protect stealth features.

    The final design contract now being negotiated was pegged at $11 billion, with India and Russia sharing $5.5 billion each towards the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up at Ozar, prototype development and flight testing. Each fighter was to cost over $100 million.

    IAF is quite confident the T-50 will meet its future requirements. Apart from ultra-manoeuvrability and supersonic cruising ability, the FGFA will carry its weapons inside the fuselage to lower its radar signature. With a cruising speed of Mach 1.7 to 1.8, it has both long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities.

    IAF is currently making do with just 34 fighter squadrons (each has 14 to 18 jets) despite needing at least 44 to keep both Pakistan and China at bay. It’s banking upon the ongoing induction of 270 Russian Sukhoi-30MKIs for around $12 billion as well as the early inking of the almost $20 billion project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters to plug operational gaps till the FGFA becomes a reality.
     
  2. sunny_10

    sunny_10 BANNED BANNED

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  3. omya

    omya Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    something tells me it will take dem more 6-8 years to complete dis project :frown:
     
  4. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    I dont think so it going to be even completed by 2020.
     
  5. yahya

    yahya 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    this is a disaster really we are wasting money and trusting russians and they are looting us as they did before and there will be another delays in this we really need fighters but guess dont think they will be ready by 2020
     
  6. safriz

    safriz BANNED BANNED

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    All IAF programs are getting into trouble..
    MMRCA no end in sight.....
    PAKFA seems to be meeting similar fate...
    The problem may be with indian negociators beargaining too much ..... Losing precious time,and with passage of time these projects tend to go costly...
    India needs to deploy better managers for these programs as the problems sound like managerial than technical...
     
  7. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    PARIS: How the F-35 programme is fighting back

    By: Dave Majumdar Washington DC

    05:25 10 Jun 2013

    The Pentagon's tri-service F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is making progress towards completing its developmental phase and entering operational service with the US Air Force, US Navy and US Marine Corps, contractor Lockheed Martin says. The US government watchdog agency, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), agrees that the much delayed and often troubled programme is making headway, in a report released earlier this year.

    "The programme met or substantially met most of its key management and development testing objectives for the year," the GAO states in its report, in unusually positive terms. "We also found that the programme made progress in addressing key technical risks, as well as improving software management, manufacturing, and supply processes."

    Not even the US Congressional sequestration law has had much of an impact on the $397 billion effort. The USAF still hopes to buy 1,763 jets, while the Department of the Navy (DoN) expects to acquire a total of 680 - of which the USMC will acquire 420 and the USN 260. The exact breakdown of the DoN purchase is in flux, but previously it was expected that 340 short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35Bs and 340 carrier variant F-35Cs would be built.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The United Kingdom, Italy, Netherlands, Australia, Canada, Norway, Denmark, and Turkey are part of the development program; Israel, Singapore and Japan , Israel:::: Singapore and Japan will also equip their air services with the F-35. The goverments and military of all these has studied the unclassified and classified date on the F35 and decided it is the plane they want for the future. Does any one here really believe Russia and India are going to come with something just as good or better. Especially considering all the evidence to the contrary.
     
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  9. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    with Politicians Leading the way, i dont think that will happen

    I think you will agree to this
     
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  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The GAO report is not that positive, it is just that it surprises everybody that there is a little bit of positive statement in it. I have made an analysis of negative points included in this report in my thread : http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/u-s-europe/24105-flying-white-elephant-6.html#post308053
     
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  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    It is known fact that they are gonna milk the cow as much as possible. IT high time we do cost evaluation and act wisely. Russian mentality of it is ok to milk has to change and India has to lead the change. Well i would appreciate US for matter of fact atleast they deliver as promised. :facepalm:
     
  12. jonas

    jonas Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    All of which is old news,once again try and come up with something new.

    As for your comment that France does not want the F35, isn't the truth that France cannot afford the F35. The cuts they are making to defence go beyond even those in the UK. Have a nice day.
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You seem to have the brain a bit limited, everyone knew that when making a comment on a document, we refer to this document to develop the answer.
     
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  14. Haruki

    Haruki FULL MEMBER

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    In fact, F-35 is cheaper than Rafale, and very likely cheaper than T-50 ( FGFA ). In my opinion you should take another thorough consideration.

    US, Japan sign deal on first four F-35 fighters
    The letter of offer and acceptance, which was signed in Japan, includes four conventional takeoff variants of the F-35 fighter at a cost of 10.2 billion yen (US$128.61 million) each, a slightly higher price than the 9.9 billion yen (US$124.83 million) than Japan initially budgeted to spend.
    http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...r-f-35-fighters&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107
     
  15. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You can see the last evaluation of cost in the GAO report p 12 on the table:

    Unit cost estimates (then-year dollars in millions): Program acquisition $161 ; Average procurement 137

    Program aquisition is with development cost.

    The proposal to Japan is something else comprising politics and so on...

    http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/653857.pdf
     
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