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A Tribute to HAL HF-24 Marut

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Arjun MBT, Apr 18, 2010.

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Could HF Marut Make its place safe in IAF if It were Upgraded?

  1. Yes If It were Upgraded with better avionics and engines

    35.7%
  2. No way,Its a 2nd gen Aircraft

    57.1%
  3. If Mig 21 Could,Even This Could have

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Well,I dont know

    7.1%
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  1. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What now?
     
  2. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    ADA is still there as the designing agency for the LCA and Hal as the chief partner and integrator, and a member in a forum complaining about the arrogant nature of ADA. And the life moves on, yesterday was monday and today is tuesday, and soon Sunday will come for sure.
     
  3. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Well, that member is me dear. First hand experience of what ADA thinks of itself, and has no clue about at production design. DFMEA, incomplete and work began on prototype. Zero Value engineering in a new product. no risk analysis, no DMAIC in phase 1. And then all the issues offloaded to HAL.

    HAL and ADA are nothing alike. For all the evils of HAL, you can abuse us as much as you want, but please do not associate HAL with ADA, would never want to be in that league.
     
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  4. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Sir, I respect you from pdf alot, but you took the comment on the wrong way. See Don't you think that ADA being a R&D agency should only concentrate on the the design aspect and all FOC, IPC related stuff should be lead by the agency like HAL, who had hand on experience with the MRO , maintainance, upgradation, integration of several aircraft, with experience and with the man power plus, the challenges experience or the production line limitations during the production. Infact many subsystems in the LCA is developed by the HAL.

    And we are wrongly discussing the role of both the agencies, because our concern should be the product and the IAF, with national capability. Let some one else develop a design, and let some other OEM whether private one do the production, we shouldn't care. What is important is the National security, with the national indigenous capability, so that our foreign reserve remains intact, which eventually benefits our country and I feel that there gave been the dark horses, very powerful ones working against it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  5. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It should, but did it do that?
    In Gate 1/ Phase 1> The concept of the product based on the requirements of the customer is established. ADA did a shitty job there.

    In gate II > Zero look Approach and Design Failure Mode and Effect Analysis is critical for any new product, where all design aspects and it's failure modes and containment processes are determined. Zero look is for establishing key components and subsystems for the product. (Both engine and Avionics turned out to be piss poor hack jobs, that tells you about zero look))

    In Gate III> PFMEA for building the product needs to be established. First look approach for Value engineering determines the feasibility technologies, and builds value both for the Builder and the customer.

    Gate IV - Would be integration of technologies and timeframes for concurrent engineering. Engine, Avionics weapons package all went to $hit here for ADA. To save it's skin, it went to build prototype right after Gate III to prove the Airframe.

    Gate IV> Is where HAL comes in where it takes the PFMEA, and production design and starts the setting up takt times and individual workcell cycle times. Here HAL starts it's own NPI process and goes to Phase I.

    Gate V> Testing and verification, Early Launch Containment. Service Manuals, and technician training.

    HAL Divides it in Three Phases,

    Phase I> Design Verification, And PFMEA. BOM structure creation and, Supplier Setup, MRP sheets for Materials dept and
    Phase II > Limited Serial production , with 3X Takt time, Single station Assembly Build. MAB and MVB Prototype
    Phase III> Production consolidation, Workcell Design, Kanban Structuring and Build carts, flow analysis and Final Hangar Layout.

    If we there is no DFMEA for key subsystems, the PFMEA will be poor. Even stupid stuff like harness Labels and wire lengths were incorrect. HAL does have some blame in the system, but ADA did a horrible job and there is no excuse for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  6. Hindustani78

    Hindustani78 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Some interesting history

    Production line of HF-24 MARUT as Hindustan Aeronautics Limited
    [​IMG]
     
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