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Aadhaar,UIDAI,UPI,IndiaStack - News and Discussions

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by arbit, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Especially we have still this worse illiteracy .Village youths in some states in India thinks in wrong way when they see some tourists .

    It is affecting society even badly.

    On topic:There was a criticism that illegal immigrants are exploiting Aadhaar through corruption.
    Particularly those BDis

    What would be its status now?
     
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  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    First of all, I'm not saying digital economy can completely replace hard currency. But it can for large majority in relatively short period of time.

    How do you explain mobile penitration of Indian rural population? Middle or not. Did any area benefit more? No.

    Have you predicted the acceptance of jandhan program? That too the entire population.

    Now anyone can enter a bank with aadhar card and open a bank account in minutes.

    On April 15 PM will introduce 'Aadhar pay' which is essentially UPI with biometrics. Payment can be done through your fingerprint.

    Then there is 'Bharat QR' for shops to takes payment. Transactions through USSD for mobile without internet.

    WhatsApp is now introducing UPI for personal transactions.

    All this can result in a snowball effect. Like what nandan nilekani said , this is a pivotal year for digital transactions in India.
     
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  3. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    so your logic is... there is not 100 % middle class and so this app is shit and too early and people in India are novice and they should not be given a technology to use....

    don't you think this is weird... and who said this helps only middle class.. roam in market see how many small thela vendors are using Paytm.. just check how many shops are already acting as payment bank nodes and kiosk centers...

    if that is not enough please also check the growth of grocery shop e commerce and their connection with small vendors, farmers, auto drivers... and if you have some time remaining please also check all those cab/auto booking app(yes they are used by middle class.. but see the cab or auto driver is not middle class.. he is poor and using the E payment options for his customers..)

    now if you know add all this together or you can wait one year to get a real data and will come to know that almost 60 % Indians are using this daily, weekly or monthly according to their need..

    a lot of people has not taken Ujjala and Neem Coated urea as a game changer and result of 5 states are just the eye opener.. wait for few more months and see miracles happen..

    by the way the next aadhar connected scheme is PDS... and that is the mother of corruption.. once implemented it will erase the age old corruption from "ration ki dukan" and that means a well fed poor man who can work for betterment of life in much better health.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I meant the author of the article not you.

    By the cheap rates of mobile phone plans and phones in India, but that doesn't mean that all of them have smartphones, or use the phone to get access to Internet and online banking or shopping right? The prime use is phoning and even the spread of the mobile phones took years didn't it? We have more people with mobile phones than with bank accounts yet, so you have to deal with the banking issue first and as I said, anything that eases the process is welcome, but to get a country like India to a cashless society is more than difficult.

    Not familiar with it, can you explain?
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Lol calm down mate, I never said it's bad, but that India is by far not at a level of a modern society, to have such a solution be effective for the whole country. That's why it will mainly benefit those who have frequent access to Internet, online sales..., while a large amount needs to come up to that level first.
    Which btw is the case for developed countries too, since they also have poor people, just to a lesser extent.

    But where do you have these features, in larger cities or rural areas? I travled last year in Kerala and later in Delhi/Agra... and you needed cash payments all the time. I can buy the ticket for the train online (and still the ticket counters are full), but to buy a tea in the train you needed cash. Same goes for prepaid taxis and rickshaws, entrance fee for most sighseeing spots...

    And as you said as well, the rickshaw driver is not middle class, but his customer is, that's why he is offering such a solution to gain more customers, not because he uses it or benefit from it in his own everyday life. He won't do much e commerce right?
     
  6. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    my dear there are 100 million consumers of jio and almost 150-200 million of other internet services... which roughly covers 25-30% population in 3g and 4 g segment.. there are another 200 million in 2 g network.. now this is atleast 40 % population(in general calculation) with access to internet.. now we have children population and senior citizen population...
    462,124,989
    Internet Users in India (2016*)
    • Share of India Population: 34.8 % (penetration)
    • Total Population : 1,326,801,576
    • Share of World Internet Users: 13.5 %
    • Internet Users in the World: 3,424,971,237
    * estimate for July 1, 2016

    ** Internet User = individual who can access the Internet at home, via any device type and connection. More details.
    http://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/india/

    jio launched on 5 september 2016 and the internet war was waged after it..now if we look on data of Indian populace... 31 % of population is below 14 years ( they are not supposed to be direct paying customers) and 5.83 % of people are above 65 years of age... and they are not supposed to change very much with technology or get effected by it directly.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#Structure_of_the_population

    now if we recalculate these 500 million internet users against potential users of present time (790 million) this percentage will be 63.3 %..

    and government is trying to get these people into this system who are the major spenders in economy too.

    things has changed from 8th nov 2016 not before that.. and I had traveled a few states and city myself and used e commece and payment aap in all those locations... even during that Note bandi time..

    and change never occur volienterly.. there is always an outsider force which start it.. if getting their customer happy is all that is needed by these small businesses then that will start it... and you need to spend or transfer the money earned by electronic means through electronic means mostly.. so yes they spend it.
     
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  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Bank accounts for poor. 22 Cr accounts in a shot time span, intact it's a record. Amazing part is 70% of them are active. Many subsidies are now through these accounts.

    https://thewire.in/33272/twenty-cro...es-jan-dhan-yojana-go-from-here-an-explainer/

    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/uh...nts-opened-under-Jan-Dhan-are-now-active.html

    No, you don't need smartphone. For Aadharpay you give your fingerprint then approve an OTP. For regular transactions you have option of USSD. (Which i don't think will mass adoption)

    Smartphones are getting more and more cheaper. $50 4G phones are on avail. Thanks to Ambani ji a high speed internet revolution is taking place.


    Any mass adoption of new innovations should provide serious advantage over existing solution and ease of use. In the case of UPI it have all the ingredients.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Ah ok, heared about it just didn't knew the name.
    Which is a good thing and that should be the focus, because that will effect more people at the end.

    No doubt about that, but first you need the base to include the masses and that's where more work needs to be done.
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which proves my point of limited benefits, since as you pointed out hardly 35% have this connectivity as of now and from them even less will use online banking freqently.

    So to be a benefit for the whole of India, one have to focus on wide spread bank accounts and Internet connectivity first, before a cash less system work.
    That's also what I meant with different speeds in India. On the one hand we want to jump to the next technological development, on the other hand we have to get a large part of the country out of poverty first.

    I have no doubt that this approach is a good one and with Indias demographic chance, it will gain benefits in future (if we get enough jobs for the young), but at this point, the fight against poverty is more important than ease of bank transactions.
     
  10. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    you are not getting the point I am saying it's not 35 but 63% and this is about fighting with poverty.. these transactions allow the reciver to directly save a little amount in bank and this is huddle and theft free..

    I am also not saying this will change things overnight but change has started and will gain movement in proportional not in linear growth.. and all these new techs are creating jobs.. better and technical jobs for youth.
     
  11. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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  12. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Rain Man my understanding of talking to various people who are involved, Aadhar was never meant to be an id for an Indian Citizen. It was meant to be a unique id, period.

    Here's a writeup on the JAM trinity/Jandhan-Aadhar-Mobile and India stack that a friend forwarded that I found educational. Hope this is of some use:

    Demonetization is simply a milestone in a long road that India began quite a while ago.

    I won't go into the collateral benefits of demonetization such as:
    a. Fake Currency.
    b. Physical cash management is going away.
    c. Impact on multiple types of/VARIOUS illegal activities: http://www.livemint.com/Politics/p9...backbone-of-Rs20-trillion-trafficking-in.html
    d. Much, much greater degree of tax compliance across the country...
    e. Black money (which I think is a very, very small part of the story (approx. 2% of the GDP) but gets a lot of news bytes/mind-share...)

    Some of these signposts are:
    a. The first was Aadhar - which really some 5 years ago.
    b. Then came the JAM Trinity. Here's Chanda Kocchar talking about the implications of the JAM Trinity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VecKa52SMTc
    c. The next step was the creation of India Stack and its roll out: http://www.indiastack.org/ and UPI

    Demonetization was identified as a necessity from multiple perspectives (apart from the colateral benefits above):
    • The cost of maintaining cash (by RBI) is around 19K CRs. The Govt. was more than happy to put this as an investment into India Stack.
    • (Like Chanda Kochhar says): Today the small person is unbanked and hence cannot tap micro-loans from Banks. They get loans from the lenders at about 30% / day. Once they have a credit history, banks are willing to give loans at 36% a year. A huge, huge difference.
    • India stack actually becomes the grease for enabling various govt-business and business-business flows. e.g GSTn will be a layer on India Stack and will automate GST deployment. BTW, the application layer of India stack is open to entrepreneurs to innovate - we expect many India specific (fin-tech) startups to start building on top of this to add value to for B2B, B2C, G2B & G2C functions. One advantage is that this will enable Indian startups massively and will be a high barrier for entry for startups from outside.
    • The persona kept in mind while designing/communicating this was Rajani who sells Bhutta from a thela Gadi. She will be able to transact via her phone and sell Bhutta, build a credit history, get loans from banks and grow from there. Today she gets a loan from lenders at about 30% a day, she will get loans at 36% a year from the banks.
    • This helps build trust in business transactions - something that has been sorely lacking in Indian society.

    The main thrust of demonetization was to further deepen the deployment of India Stack. Here's the impact of India Stack by Vivek Wadhwa: https://twitter.com/wadhwa/status/823638888207896577

    And of course Nandan Nilekan: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/56557986.cms . His key point: “Credit is the killer app of digitalisation,“

    We see multiple collateral benefits of UPI/India stack. The costs of identification (KYC), transactions drop down to about 1-2 paise now.
    • One impact of eKyc: http://www.economist.com/news/busin...are-now-enrolled-indian-business-prepares-tap - he gives the example of Reliance using Aadhar - my personal example: it took me a month to get a functioning Reliance Jio wifi router. After Aadhar integration was done, it took a friend 15 min to buy & have her Jio router enabled.
    • Today the reason that MFs want a minimum of Rs. 5000 for opening a MF account is the setup / identification costs. Once these costs drop, there are plans of opening MFs and the equity market to the BOP. We see the Bottom of the Pyramid now invest Rs. 5-10/- into the MFs. Think of the impact on the equity and the debt market AND to the savings of the BOP citizen.
    • further automation and deepening integration of Govt services into Indian Society...
    • and many, many more...
    The point is - this now opens emergent opportunities that were never imagined before. It is now all about execution - yes there will be screwups during execution but I believe it is better to screw up and course correct than not to act.
     
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  13. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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  14. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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