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Acchhe Din - A Mirage

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by Paliwal Warrior, Jun 24, 2014.

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  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I am not doing any criticism unfairly

    The Govt took a descision t& then i criticised not prematurely
     
  2. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    it is strange that people dont notice that even UPA was being critisied

    It is also strange that people like u say that nothing happened in the last 67 years when the fact is that when we got independence

    not even a paper pin / u clip was being manufactured in INDIA

    since then we have come a long way

    IT is also strange that the Nuclear Bomb tested by ABV in 1998 was NOT developed or made overnight by ABV with help of sadhus & BABAS

    it is also strange that people forget that when computerisation was being brought in india in govt, banks it was BJP who opposed it, who tae out a bulloc cart yatra and rode bullocks into parliament - Need pics ?

    It is also strange that Modi/BJP opposed the price hikes as recent as 3 months back , taking these loogic to its conclusion it can be argued that since at that time the price hikes were necessary & required in national interest, the BJP by oppoing the national good at that was a Anti National Party & acted againt the national interest.

    So first thing

    STOP blaming all things on past govts.

    Second

    Understand that there were many things which UP did wrong & many scams - so they are out of power.
    if the same things are to be done by NDA saying UPA tarted it then i thin UPA was better as atleast they owned up their decisions

    Third Blaming UPA will not sere the purpose neither for the ills of the economy nor or any decision taken (such as rail fare hike)

    IF BJP has taken any decision - however unpopular - the least they can do is OWN the decision.

    if u dont have the guts to at least own your decisions, should u be in Govt ? Should i vote u again ?
     
  3. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Railways are in this shithole because of managerial issues
    THere are so many scams going on if they are stopped w/o single paise rise in fares Rly can not only become profitable but wipe out accumulated loses
    Read CAG reports on railways

    There is no subsidy on fuels it is nonsense pl read the whole thread
    Again u have been fed nonsense ... the Fuel subsidy is not borne by the Govt
    It is paid by cos like ONGC, GAIL, OIL pl check it up -

    Also by gas price hike i meant price hie being given to CHOR COMPANY
    Not LPG hike which again u have mentioned below

    If the price hike is given to 8.4$ the u can save this - it will be the next ENRON of India

    Do u knw about ENRON - the KGD6 will be indias next ENRON

    if the govt will gie price hike & try to save it from becming enron - that can again only happen thru subsidies - again it will be my & your TAX MONEY


    See its a circular argument
    We have excess sugar production right - then why do we have imports ? cheaper yes & No

    No because our own cos - Renua sugars, 1 other co have set up plants in brazil they grow sugar cane there process it convert it inot raw sugar & export into india then refine it & sell it
    Why do they do such things ? 'coz o stupid taxation policies the differential rates at whcih raw sugar & refined sugars are taxed at import.

    ik cheaper sugar is imported then the domestic sugar will be cheap will make loss on sugar - ok

    Now say import duty increased -
    so import will reduce R will rise 'coz import paymnet stopped , domestic price too will rise help farmers (no) help sugar mill owners yes

    Anyways OK till this stage

    But why export SUBSIDY - on 1 hand u r against any subsidy
    then why export subsidy -

    If the mill owners are cheating the farmers than the solution is not to give export subsidy to Mill Owners
    they need to be acted on.

    Most of the problems in sugar mills happens in UP&Maharashtra only (both these places the Mill are owned by politicians mostly)
    While the sugar cane & sugar mills are also in Gujarat, Punjab, Haryana, Karnataka - why dont we hear of problems in these places ?

    these other places not having problems or issue mean that the proplem is with the owners of mills in UP&Maharashtra majority of whom are politicians


    There is no subsidy no loss it is all accounting, terminological gimmick, pl read the posts in this thread to now more about it



    Again if you read the whole thread

    my mesage is simple

    I dont want freebie but at the same time i am not ready to buy your arguments for 55% tax on fuels
    I am ok with import duty on sugar but NOT with export subsidy

    From BJP i was expecting the Policy & administrative reforms which they had been talkin about all these years
    Not the cntinuation of UPA' bad old way in same r different manner
     
  4. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The expectation in 30 days was that they cannot bring it down but At least they could have refrained from adding to it - very simple expectation really



    When we talk of comparing fares wrldwide, why restrict ur self to only fares - because it support ur arguments for Fare Hike

    Why not consider productiity, why not also compare per employee productiity also

    in all these too were are at the bottom in the world

    By increasing Fares we will not be able to increase efficiecny, prductivity

    but by increasing eeciency, productivity we can increase revenues which can obviate the need for hike
     
  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Increase in fares will give the teeth to the railways to invest in people productivity. You dont need a ticket collector nor issuer if a proper system is used. It will help in incorporating technological advancements.

    In currently scenrio Railways i dont think they have much teeth to do any upgrades. And it is a right decision.

    Manned Railway crossing and unmanned Railway crossing needs serious work upon. Screaming for safety wont solve if one doesnt want to pay for safety. Scams and Corruption cannot be weeded out overnight. But changes has to be made where there is no way of making them. It will kill the scams and corruption slowly.

    Jus have to watch out for new scams if arises then Mr. Modi's changes have failed. Else....
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  6. Vyom

    Vyom Captain IDF NewBie

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    The simple fact is the loss in productivity is that because we re using age old technology and obsolete methods of signalling. The track strength is bad, signalling system is obsolete, new tracks are required to avoid congetion of rail traffic new trains are required to ease the flow of passengers, now ask your self from where will the money come.... .

    Q : How to increase productivity A : By adding new technology, (yes this also costs money)

    The railways is running a Rs. 30 Crore loses in a day, now tell me, pray, the very problem of loss in productivity is because of the lack of system up grade and the fares are too low... Your analysis of the railway system is too shallow. Majority of the passenger fares are cross-subsidized from freight.

    There is by no possible means the current fares can be affordable by the railways. Apparently, same goes for your first comment, you would rather see Indin railways go Kaput than pay a 14% fare hike no fare hike for ten years and you expect the operating costs of the railways to remain the same. The railways is a business it has to generate revenue to survive... it is not a social service. Not one sane person has criticized the move to hike railway fare hike, unless motivated by political inclinations. The fare hike has been done to get the railways out of the ventilator, and to improve productivity and efficiency you need revenue generations. Operating costs always rise.

    The expectation to keep the prices as they are, is good enough... but do you have any Idea of the market dynamics that are at play when the price of any commodity. How long do these dynamics take time to change in to a new momentum. The first and foremost priority is to stop the out flow of $s from the Indian market, even if Indian companies are there in Brazil, do you expect them to take rupees for payment ?? absolutely not... and so if you think that the Indian sugar producers are going to set up their factories in India overnight due to a change in policy is BS they cannot just pack up and leave Brazil if the regulations are eased here. They went there because of the regressive policy of UPA and they won't come back because of easing policy, Only money matters in business. The Sugar mill owners will profit but if they don't earn profit then what is the point of doing business then ?? Business class is being demonized once again. To ensure that the profit does occur to the farmers as well, a centralized food resources stock real time monitoring system is required and laws need to change and enforced properly , hence governance effectiveness.

    Take two : 'subsidies' are a generic term and its more about where the monies are being to to affect a certain market prices by the Govt. I am against price control of domestic consumable commodities, why ? because they lead to corruption and black marketing. why export subsidies are good ? because they increase our foreign exchange reserves and help in export the make us an exporter than an importer. Its always good to export. We need to export in rupees but we get paid in dollars, we earn dollars and can buy fuel, guns etc, rupee value increases as well, direct tangible benefits. Next in case of fuel subsidies, we loose dollars, and also again subside imports by rupees then again devaluing rupee over domestic consumption, that is two negatives that spiral inflation and value of the rupee.

    Suger prices will rise then as domestic production increases and newer tax norms are placed it will ease down to the level of sugar in the international markets. That is the idea the see-saw will happen over a couple of years. the change is for the good, it was never said that it is going to be easy.

    The expectation are right but the time for seeing a sea change almost immediately is baseless, 30 days to judge a Govt's performance is ridiculous. what we need the most is almost a new governance structures so that the benefits are delivered to the poor. It takes nine months to give birth to a baby, it will take some good amount of time to give rise to a new governance paradigm. If you expect it to happen in 30days then you are a genius.

    Meanwhile try to learn economics and do an internship with the railways to know how the system works and where it doesn't.

    Don't jump to outright conclusions in simplistic terms. the end product that we get in markets and our doors is a massive effort by a lot of people working. Not everyone is a thief, barring Reliance (RIL) who is a thief (see even i do agree with you) have faith in BJP, and don't expect freebies or subsidies. Once the entire country can afford market price of fuels the taxes on fuel will also be revoked and it will be available to the rates compatible to the international market regimes. but that is a long way off we need to get rid of the poverty line and get 95-98% people over the international poverty line to achieve an economic feat. economic disparities will happen til then. Had these steps been taken earlier this wouldn't be happening today. Every govt. does its bit in order to do what is good but the point is not performance.. or mere performance... its now on outdoing your competition. All other comparable economies of Asia took off while we couldn't, There rise wasn't a smooth one.

    To have something better for the future some pains must be taken. If you want to improve a road's capacity to carry cars you'll need flyovers but then you have dig up the road as well cause some inconvenience, and you cannot improve without upsetting the status Quo.

    P.S. in case you decide to learn economics avoid JNU and DU ... that is commie central.
     
  7. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    it is strange that the people kept quiet when the italian waitress and her cronies have been raping the nation for 10 years. Further it was almost 50 years that the ruling family has been raping india in their own sweet time, and now you expect NaMo to undo all the things that they did in past 6 decades in just 30 days?

    One of the issues is that UPA in its desire as final gamble to come into power had taken many crazy decisions, which either way was going to be lose. Thus if they would have won and come to power, they would have blamed recession as they were always doing when countries are already coming out of it, and if they lost, the next government might find it difficult to undo in next 10 years no matter what, thus if and when they come in power after say 5 / 10 years the present government would have done things to solve the matters but the results would come later and thus the UPA 3 or its avatar might take the credit. During UPA 1 the government was taking credit of great economy which was result of good decisions by NDA, thus if UPA 1 was so good why the hell is an agricultural country like india have high cost of living? Why each arm of defence is at its breaking point without any good modern weapons or numbers?

    The UPA government was paralysis and that the fact is that MMS did not say anything because he did not achieve anything or did not know what the hell was going. He was in the drivers seat (
    We got independence due to UPA? at least the way you say seems to be that,
    We did not get independence due to congress, we actually got independence because then
    INDIA HAD BIGGER STANDING ARMY THAN BRITAIN WHOSE ARMY WAS ALL OVER EUROPE AND ASIA, We had the entire british navy in Mumbai harbour and the sailor had done the strike and threatening to move the ships and attack England. Further we had now trained fighter squadrons in india.

    Further the entire basis of the second world war was independence, and strangely the French and the british fought under that slogan, but did not really want freedom for their colonies.

    We did not get freedom due to Congress, The british did not give Rats ass abt Congress.
     
  8. ricky123

    ricky123 Captain FULL MEMBER

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  9. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    HAHAHAHa

    it is an old trick that when u dont have answers or cant answer ......Rant & Rabble & confuse the issue

    Try something new

    nowhere i have claimed that congress was the reason we got independence

    I have just pointed out that at the time of independence we were in a very bad shape with no industries
    Since then we have come a long way

    could we have gone some furthur if we had chosen different policies ? these are mere 2nd thoughts and speculations without any definitive answers

    It is always possible to blame others & find fault in the past in reptrospect or by looking back

    But that dosent make difference to your position right now - it dosent matter

    What matters is that we learn form our mistakes - if any- from the past

    But what matters even more is today - this instance - what we do right now - right here

    Dont u think if the rail fares have been hiked - the Govt, The Minisry & the Minister should have owned the decision rather than sying it was UPA decision we are just implementing it ?
     
  10. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  11. j123456

    j123456 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I think people should see the custom and excise collection in the budget estimates for fuel products . you will find it much more than the subsidy that govt is providing . Add to it the dividend and other taxes given by oil and gas companies to govt of india. So in fact there is no subsidy.People here are saying that the lpg subsidy is not benifitting common man . In turn it is used more for black marketing which i think is wrong. as per census around 15-16 cr households are using LPG. Assuming average of 6 cylinders used by family in a year . the total cylinders are around 100 crs. Subsidy per cylinder by central govt is 433 rs . Total subsidy should be 43300 crs . Actual subsidy given is around 50k crs which is closeby. So your of huge black marketing is wrong here. Moreover even if you donot provide subsidy and use it for infrastructure development or likewise . you can never expect that also to reach fully to people. Another foolish point presented is that giving subsidy is useless . i think if subsidy reaches poor it will automatically improve the growth of country. The poor people who will save money by getting subsidy might use it to purchase some other goods which will lead to development and increase in demand of other prodects leading to development. I think it's not good to remove subsidy but the govt should make measures so that it fully reaches the needy .
     
  12. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    How does she own them ??
     
  13. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    6 cylinders a year?, Guess with a family of 4, it automatically goes abt 10-12 cylinders a year.
     
  14. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    I think the most important thing is efficiency of Tax collection, if the tax collection is more effective it means less black money. It is important to have a more efficient tax collection system.
     
  15. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    I think you should first understand what is exactly happening before you try to comment something, I am not here to educate the uneducated.
    But matter is simple, the Rot set in quite long time back and in past 10 years the system has rotted so much that one cannot find the system within the rot, and it would take a lot of time and money to ultimately clean the system and clear the rot. The cost of modernization by the past stupid govt is really stupid, Can you imagine they put escalators at train stations. As per it was not a priority, but they have done so for the conveinence of the people.
    The most important thing about UPA gove other than the scams is total lack of clarity as to what the priority should be
     
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