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Aero India 2017

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lca-fan, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. Robinhood Pandey

    Robinhood Pandey SECOND IN COMMAND Staff Member SECTION CHIEF

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    i can mail u the original one. . .problem is my other pic of that Garud commando is been used by many defense pages without any recognition or credit to the owner i.e me :p

    isliye watermarked them :p

    someone suggested me to do that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
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  2. Schwifty

    Schwifty 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  3. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It has still not got an aesa antenna ......................
     
  4. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    No that's ok. You did the right thing.
    Can you lead me to the choorrs who stole youe pics.....
     
  5. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    Anyone have any clear pic ?

    It has some info about our SCB ..............................
     
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  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Now that is THE question sir!

    The biggest joke is that the Ka-226s will now be delivered (in 2019) AFTER the HAL LUH is in service (2018).

    It is an unfathamble decsion now, the entire point of the RSH deal was to cover the timeline for HAL to develop the LUH. So after losing the RSH contract (Airbus had been declared L1 but NDA came in and gave it to Russia anyway), Russia has now failed to even adhere to the most basic compulsions of the Indian mil.

    Give the $1bn to HAL to up their LUH capacity further, this will have a FAR greater impact on the Indian aerospace industry than assembling knocked down kits of the Ka-226 in India. HAL is starting to work very closely with the private sector and outsourcing more and more.

    And still the Indian media are MIA, now questions at all are being asked why this deal is being pursued with no apparent benefit to the Indian taxpayer. The same journos that talk down the LCA and Arjun on a daily basis are turning a blind eye to this farce.


    None of this sits right with me at all. I can't see any benefit to this deal, all I can see is added operational costs for the IA and IAF and a needless curbing of the successful LUH's orderbook.


    @dadeechi @PARIKRAMA @Ankit Kumar 001 @Agent_47 @Gessler @Grevion @GuardianRED @Sathya @SrNair @randomradio @Echo_419
     
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  7. Gessler

    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The only appeal I see for Ka-226T is that it is twin-engined and possibly provides better survivability and payload capacities in high-altitude regions.

    However, even that does't really pitch the Sergei in to a position where ordering more than a couple dozen (off the shelf ofcourse) would make any sense. Buying 197 of them is crazy when LUH is available.

    Hope Parrikar kills the deal one way or the other. But as I understand - the GoI has entered into some pact with the Russians that they have to give them something. PKSG has proposed a move - joint development to realize the Ka-92 transport helicopter concept as the replacement of Mi-17s by 2030 (basically, junk the extended-Dhruv concept and pursue this as our IMRH).

    [​IMG]

    This would keep Kamov happy (especially when such a chopper might have huge appeal within Russia itself) and allow for the HAL LUH to grab the whole 384-chopper RSH requirement.
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Ka-226 was chosen because it's a twin engine helicopter. It's required for safe operations in the mountains. Plus it provides better stability due to the rotor design compared to the LUH.
     
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  9. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Playing the devil!

    Even thought HAL is parading the LUH like a peacock ! .... Their success of delivering on time is everyone to see isn't good.

    Now the Requirement for the Light Helicopter fleet is quite high, the cheetahs and chetaks should have been retired yesterday! + the no. of frames too is high! Therefore to have a large fleet in a short time is too much for the LUH . This is where the Ka226 is will a great addition. We can have a sufficient light fleet till the LCH increase in no. and who know the Ka226 can then be transfer to NDRF (for eg) .

    Bottom - line the requirement is too large and time is short Hence there is a scope for both the frames ie Ka226 and LCH

    For fun - can anyone suggest a name for the LCH?
     
  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    I think we have had this conversation before @randomradio bro but the IAF and IA NEVER asked for a twin engine helo, if they were interested in that they would have stipulated it in the RSH RFP. The fact is the IA and IAF have been safely operating the single engine Cheetah from the highest helipads on the planet with little issue (safety wise).

    Being twin engined just means the Ka-226 will be more than twice as expensive to operate as the HAL LUH.


    Has anyone seen the IAF or IA fawning over the Ka-226? They don't want it, the Russian forces don't even want it and 200 units just to serve in the mountains? That's way too many.

    Not going to happen, HAL is already working to finalise the design for the IMRH to have first flight by 2020-21.

    I don't agree, from 2021/2 HAL's Temkur plant will be churning out 60/LUH a year, this will fulfil the IA and IAF requirements (600 LUH/RSH) by 2027-8. The Ka-226 will not be that helpful in replacing outdated machinary as


    a) It will only be delivered AFTER that HAL LUH
    b) the remaining 140 (or so) units won't be assembled in India until after 2021
    c) Inducting a new platform requires years of training and in-service validation before it is declared fully operational, having to duplicate such efforts across the HAL LUH and Ka-226 won't exactly expediate the process.

    Basically marginal short term gains for long term pain (additional training and maintainence costs with the added headache of having to maintain an entirely seperate stockpile of spares and reduce commonality across the fleet) .This is the opposite way India should be going, there should be more standardisation and more bulk buys, enough of this retarded peicemeal procurements from all and sundry.

    This Ka-226 is a COLLOSSAL farce by the NDA/GoI, I'd love to see an Indian journo witht he b@lls or sense to call the DM out on this as right now there is no justifaction for ordering the Ka-226. I expect and hope the CAG will rip the GoI to shreds over this waste of resources.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The IAF and IA specifically asked for it. That's why the tender was canceled and MII program was initiated. Or else Fennec would have won. Plus Putin got involved.

    This is the same case as the Rafale deal. The tender failed, so we chose the best helicopter through GTG.

    In fact, Ka-226 is seen as a critical asset of high importance. That's why the entire process was fast tracked. It was the army that initiated the Ka-226 GTG. Modi/Parrikar have never done anything that goes against what the IA/IAF want. To date, they have never made a political decision.

    If this helicopter wasn't important, then the deal wouldn't have happened so fast. It's basically a very high priority project.

    We used them because we didn't have a choice. As for safety issue, the entire fleet was grounded in December.

    The world has operated over 800 of these puppies. Ka-226 is a modified Ka-26.

    And this notion of having at least one customer is irrelevant to India. India was the first customer of the Su-30 as well. Russia wasn't an operator of the Su-30. Anyway, the RuAF have ordered 36.
     
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  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Bro, this is all conjecture, there is no supporting evidence that the IA insisted on the Ka-226.

    Plus, how has the Ka-226 deal been fast tracked? Still no agreement has been signed, deliveries aren't even assured yet. It took less time to sign the Rafale G2G!

    I'm not going to blindly back Modi/Parrikar, they have to prove their intentions are noble, we can only speculate they are right now.

    + there are still a LOT of strategically important deals they have no moved ahead.

    Because the fleet is ANCIENT, not because of the single engine.
     
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  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    They are the ones who are most in need of helicopters. It's because of their mountain positions that they need to keep supplied.

    In fact, they had purchased Cheetals only in 2013 because they need helicopters.
    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n.../hals-cheetal-meets-indian-armys-urgent-needs

    The delay had become so ridiculous that the Ka-226T was fast tracked.

    The thing about India and Russia is we don't need a contract to start work. Work on the Indian Ka-226T has already begun. Contract signature is a formality. Even PAK FA PDC started many months before signature.

    In my book, they are. In fact, exceeded expectations.

    No, the helicopter was crash prone.

    https://www.thequint.com/blogs/2016...hetak-and-dhruv-helicopters-alouette-and-lama
    But having flown these machines extensively over my two decades-plus service in the whites, I can say with reasonable confidence that all pilots who have done time in the Indian Armed Forces know at least one person who has died in a Chetak/Cheetah crash. To me, that is as damning a statistic as any.

    This is the reason why even the navy tender is for a twin engine.

    Lastly, you can't rely on HAL's dates for the LUH. It's had its first flight only a few months ago, while the basic Ka-226 flew in 1997, while coming from a long line of cousins all the way from the 60s. Proven helicopter versus prototype.
     
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  14. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Its simple.There is no benefit in this .
    That was just a dole out gave to Russians .Because after loosing a lots of deals (due to their own incompetency), bears are unnecessarily poking nose in our neighbourhood .
    And Pakistanis are happy to fix their hand even in shit to show that 'we are equal to India',we need parity and also happy to show their obsession .

    We have to aggressively paces our MIC .If we can maintain our current momentum we can kick out all those foreigners from our market within two decades .
    Enough is enough.
     
  15. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Why should we put all our eggs in on basket i.e. LUH. What if the product is not successful and doesn't satisfy the requirement of 20,000 ft altitude ?

    Ka-226 was according to me is the best & cheapest solution available and will keep the strategic partnership with Russia intact in future. But it is still 5 years away from production, AFAIK.
     

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