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Air superiority fighter proposal (revised)

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Nov 16, 2013.

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  1. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Thanks!
     
  2. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    What would that weight include? Considering its light weight, 2 IRIS-T + 4 MICA IR will have a major weight impact.
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    4 tons will include complete ac and the pilot only. The weight of pylons, fuel, weapons etc will be separate.
     
  4. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    So:
    Length: 11,0 m
    Wing span: 8,7 m
    Height: 2,5 m
    Wing area: 21,15 m2

    Operational empty weight: 4.000 kg
    Fuel capacity: 3.722,5 kg
    Fuel fraction: 0,48
    Air-to-air takeoff weight: 8.337,5 kg
    Air-to-air combat weight: 6.476 kg

    Rafale's OEW of 9.550 kg gives a wing loading of 209 kg/m2 while with my aircraft, OEW would give a wing loading of 189 kg/m2, so this does seem correct.
     
  5. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    [MENTION=6253]vstol jockey[/MENTION] You mentioned a weight reduction due to composites, in that case OEW could be 3.200 kg?
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Not exactly. The reason is the size of the ac. there are many sub systems which can't be replaced by composites and the area of composites will be small due to small size of the ac. So the kind of benefits which you can have from composites in bigger ac will not be available for a small ac like this. I have my reasons for using all metal airframe. It helps in reducing cost and also in much better maintenance especially when we are going to use grass strips etc for operations. Al-Li is 30% lighter than normal Al alloys being used for ac construction and have same density as composites or even lighter.
     
  7. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    I did a new calculus:
    Draken: 15,34 m, 7.400 kg empty, 482 kg/m
    F-16A: 15,06 m, 7.076 kg empty, 470 kg/m
    Gripen E: 14,9 m, 7.000 kg empty, 470 kg/m
    Gripen C: 14,1 m, 6.800 kg empty, 482 kg/m
    Gripen A: 14,1 m, 6.600 kg empty, 468 kg/m
    Harrier II: 14,12 m, 5.700 kg empty, 404 kg/m

    Gripen A is 92% as long as Draken and per meter weight is 97% of Draken's. Harrier II is 94% as long as F-16A and per meter weight is 86% of F-16As.

    FLX at 11,0 m is 77% as long as Harrier II, and per-meter weight should be 70% of Harrier IIs, or 3.100 kg. I chose Harrier II as it does not have long-range radar for example. Adding 300 kg for OEW results in 3.400 kg.
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You must also note the reasons for their length. sea Harrier has tailboom which is very low weight but adds to its length similarly some ac have their length increase due to pitot tubes which are again very low in weight. Some even have over hung rudders and tailplane like Mig-21 which give a wrong estimation. However, you will see that my estimation of about 500kkgs/m of length for a 15m long ac is pretty close for all metal construction.

    One more important aspect is that you will cross OEW of 3tons the moment your length goes past 9m, 3.5 tons once past 10m and above 11m, you shud look for 4 tons as OEW. For every one meter increase add 500 kilograms as weigth and once above 14m, use 600 kilograms/meter as weight. Do a study and you will find my prediction very accurate. These figures are for single engine fighters for twin engined fighter, you will have to use 600 Kgs/meter till 14m length and 700 kgs/meter for 15m and above. You can reduce it by 10% incase use have composites with between 25%-40% and by 20% if the composites are more than 60%.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  9. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    [MENTION=6253]vstol jockey[/MENTION] I am working on a new estimate, but this time I'm going to estimate weight of airframe, engines and sensors separately. How much can weight of airframe itself be reduced with new composites compared to Gripen A?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I have your e-mail id. I will send you the details on your email Id. My design is 11m long with a fuselage of 10.5m length. I have an overhang of 0.5m of the tailplane.
     
  11. CountryFirst2

    CountryFirst2 Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    E-mail is not safe. Espeically Gmail. America will get the designs.
     
  12. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    They already have
     
  13. USMC48th

    USMC48th FULL MEMBER

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    Hi picard sir. hello men. I was driving last weekend from where I am living currently to Los Angeles to visit my family. I was averaging 65mph and it took me 7 hours. On the map it looked like I have traveled 1cm. This is 1cm out of a 80cm that was the usa. but then i also realized if this was europe, i had just traveled through 3 countries, yet in a big country it was a dot on the map. I can see usefullness in producing a small fighter when the country is small. Afterall, you spend 20 minutes in the air and you are already violating someone elses air space.
    Something else my friend katherine brought up that will fit this point of view, she said in vietnam, u.s fighters dropped 4 1000 lbs bombs accurately on a bridge. The damn bridge still stood. They had to find a way to deploy a few 2000 lbs bombs to finish the bridge.
    From my own perspective, if I ever called for air support, I always thought how nice would it be if my guardian A10 could loiter just a little longer, damn it.
    Being outnumbered 3 to 1 was fun, and it was the way it was meant to be. But when we faced 6 or 7 to 1, we called the Hawggs baby.
    Listen, my friend. You know why I love the f15 strike eagles, or the su27?? Because they can carry it all, stay in a fight. The contractors whom build the weapons and missile are not so limited by the platform. Because the damn thing just never leaves, and we like those kind of birds.
    This was from my prespective. Looking at it from economical....im not so sure either. More sorties per target set, more airframes, more tankers, a lot more tankers, more crew, more pilots to train, feed, train, feed...more infrastructure, more parts, more of everything. But less or non of 2000 lbs or higher class weapons, smaller radars, less room for cooling, electronics, fuel...less room to grow, very limited weapon design. it may work in Lebanon or in czech, but it would be foolish in canada. And it would be suicide in the u.s. or india.
    I would use those tiny dimensions to creat a drone. Even that drone is limited in power projection.
     
    Anish likes this.
  14. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Here's a better one pulled straight from a fictional game:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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