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Akash Surface to Air Missile System

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by Spirit27, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The worst part of Akash is its size

    It needs a BMP- 2 tracked chassis to carry 3 uncanisterised missles.
    [​IMG]

    Vs

    8x canistererized Barak-8

    [​IMG]


    Ultimately this increases system costs for deploying Akash which eats into any!cost savings from the cheapo missile.
     
  2. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    U are really consistent is posting REALLY BAD comments!!!

    First - That is a T72 chassis NOT BMP
    Second - That is a old platform

    New Platform is

    [​IMG]

    Third

    The Akash Missile design is Based on the SA-6

    [​IMG]


    Finally - The Barak 8 is a new generation of Missile, which is 8 - 10 times more expensive than the Akash and really can't compare the 2 missile systems + Please tell everyone here WHAT exactly is the DEPLOYING Cost !!??? i would really like to know!
     
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  3. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    My mistake.

    [​IMG]

    But the point remains. Akash is bulky besides being obsolete. And only limited to 3 missiles per launcher. So we have to increase the number of launch vehicles.

    Also source on 8-10 times expensive?

    Edit: Besides the point was to illustrate the bulkiness of Akash rather than comparing Barak's capabilities.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  4. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Again - How is it Obsolete??? - again the design is based on the SA-6, which is proven system!

    and What is the Deployment cost? u still haven't mentioned that!

    IA -
    Ordered 2 Akash regiments with 2000 missiles - 3.1 Billion
    Ordered 5 Barak Regments with 200 Missile - 2.6 Billion

    U do the math!

    + The Akash System is already deployed
    The barak is expected to be deployed by 2023 , what is the deployment cost for this then?
     
  5. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Lol SA - 6 Kub is itself obsolete. Hahaha. It was designed in the 60's and 70's ffs Already replaced by Buk.

    Deployment cost in comparison to a non bulky version of Akash which doesn't weigh 720 kilos.

    Those are system costs. Barak - 8 has a much superior S-band AESA Radar with range of 100's of kilometers versus AKASH with an older PESA with 60-100 km track range. You have to show missile costs. Besides you are comparing 2010 costbwith 2017 costs. The Air Force ordered 432 missiles @ 1.9 billion in 2009.
     
  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    At least you are consistent! ... bad comments!!

    When said the Akash missile the aerodynamic design is that of the SA-6 BUT it IS NOT THE - SA-6. Al Systems and electronics are current gen and NOT 60's /70's

    U keep saying deployment Cost and Yet you are not giving a figure for and THUS you have a failed Argument

    The Indian Army and Airforce variants are different , The cost is fixed at the time of signing the contract and will not charge ... This isn't a fruit and the price isn't seasonal

    On the Bulkiness .... LIKE DUH!!!!... The Akash is design to be a cost effective system using the tech present/avaliable in the IMC!! The No. of launchers and missiles ISN'T fixed and its nos. can be increased and supported + an advance variant of this is in the works

    The Barak 8 is an advance missile system using next gen tech and systems and like mentioned the cost is truly high , that is why the IA order only 40 launchers and 200 missile and will be deploy for high value assets
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  7. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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    [​IMG]

    The Akash was produced by the state-run Bharat Electronics.

    NEW DELHI: As many as a third of the home-made Akash surface-to-air missiles have failed basic tests, says the country's national auditor, claiming the deficiencies of the missiles "posed an operational risk during hostilities."

    The report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) is a big setback for the Make-In-India initiative which seeks to reduce India's dependence on imported arms. The report, given to parliament, says, "the missiles fell short of the target, had lower than the required velocity, and there was malfunctioning of critical units."

    The Air Force has refused to comment on the report.


    The Akash was produced by the state-run Bharat Electronics. The auditor says that though 3,600 crores have been paid to the manufacturer, none of the missile systems are installed at the six designated sites even though it has been seven years since the contract was signed.

    The Akash and its newer variant, the Akash Mk-2, are a medium-range surface-to-air missile system designed to intercept enemy aircraft and missiles at a distance of 18-30 km. Tested extensively by the Indian Air Force, the Akash, which was first handed over in December 2008, was seen as a breakthrough indigenous system and in 2010, an additional six squadrons were ordered.

    These additional squadrons, composed of missile launchers, radars, associated vehicles and hundreds of Akash missiles, were meant to be deployed at six air force bases in the East for which the government approved related infrastructure including storage facilities, workshops and ramp structures. These were supposed to be constructed by Bharat Electronics on a turnkey basis at a cost of approximately 100 crores. However, this infrastructure "could not be completed till October 2016 at any of the sites." The auditor also says though work was nearly complete at two bases, the "IAF had not taken over these buildings because of defects in the construction, which rendered them unsuitable for strategic missile system storage. In other stations, the progress was below 45 per cent as of October 2016".


    While the missiles were indeed delivered to air forces bases between April 2014 and June 2016 after a delay of between 6 and 18 months, the missiles were found to be deficient in quality. According to the auditor, "Out of 80 missiles received upto November 2014, 20 missiles were test fired during April-November 2014. 6 of these missiles, ie, 30 per cent, failed the test."

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    who is manufacturing these? is it OFB? BEL? they need to be reprimanded and punished. enough is enough! the world is going even better than 6 sigma and we are at 66% efficiency!
     
  8. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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    DRDO does make world class system from time to time.But our production agencies continue to mess up every time.
     
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  9. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Strategic missile system is a medium range, supersonic, surface to air missile system with capability to engage a wide variety of aerial threats within a range of ‘X’ km. It is therefore vital for the country’s air defence and deterrence capability. Strategic missile system developed by DRDO for the Indian Air force (IAF) was therefore planned to be inducted from 1994 to replace the vintage ‘NN’ missile system which was procured during 1974-90. Initially, Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), in December 2008, approved induction of two squadrons of Strategic missile system, one each at ‘A’ Command and ‘B’ Command to cover areas in ‘T’ and ‘U’ sectors. These were commissioned in October 2014 (‘A’ Command) and March 2015 (‘B’ Command) respectively. Indian posture in ‘S’ sector was changed (2009) from ‘Dissuasive’ to ‘Deterrence’, due to build up of large scale military infrastructure by the adversary. Therefore, CCS approved (November 2010) the procurement and induction of six squadrons of Strategic missile system2 from BEL to be located at six IAF stations in the ‘C’ Command, at a total cost of `3,619.25 crore (excluding taxes). Approval was also granted for creation of necessary infrastructure, like missile preparation and storage facility, ramp structure and workshop buildings at these six locations. These were to be constructed by BEL, on turnkey basis, at a cost of `99.84 crore. Ministry of Defence (MoD) accordingly concluded (December 2010) the contract with BEL for delivery of six squadrons of Strategic missile system with ‘Y’ missiles. These were to be delivered between June 2013 and December 2015, at an interval of six months each. The whole induction process was to be monitored by Project Management Group (PMG) of IAF. Considering the operational importance of the induction of Strategic missile system in the ‘S’ sector, audit was conducted to examine whether the required deterrence capability could be created within the stipulated time and approved cost.

    Missiles delivered had quality problems

    As per the contract (December 2010), Strategic missile system was to be delivered progressively within 60 months (i.e. during June 2013 to December 2015). These were received at six AF stations between April 2014 and June 2016, after delay of 06 to 18 months from the scheduled date. Meanwhile, IAF released 95 per cent of the payment i.e. `3,809 crore (including taxes) by March 2016 based on Factory Acceptance Test (FAT)3 . Audit found that the Strategic missile system delivered by BEL were deficient in quality. Out of 80 missiles received up to November 2014, 20 missiles were test fired during April-November 2014. Six of these missiles i.e., 30 per cent, failed the test. Preliminary failure analysis report revealed that the missiles fell short of the target, had lower than the required velocity, and also there was malfunctioning of critical units like Servo Control Unit and Connector. Two missiles had failed to take off because the booster nozzle had failed. These deficiencies posed an operational risk during hostilities.
    Failure analysis of the first three failed missiles was completed in August 2014 while that of another three missiles was completed in May 2016. IAF replied (March 2017) that action for replacement of the failed missiles was being undertaken. IAF also stated that BEL had replaced the three failed missiles in January 2016 and the remaining three missiles were yet to be replaced. Audit is of the view that it is not just a matter of replacing the missiles that failed in the test. As the failure rate of the sample tested was as high as 30 per cent, action needs to be taken to establish the reliability of the balance ‘Z’ missiles. The larger issue is that 30 per cent failure rate of the sample tested puts question mark on the reliability of FAT, based on which 95 per cent of the payment due (`3,809 crore) was already paid to BEL.

    Reduced life span of missiles and reduced warranty periods
    As pointed out in para 2.1.3, life span of the missiles is 10 years. Audit found that, out of ‘Z’ missiles held by IAF, more than three years life of 70 missiles, between two to three years of 150 missiles and one to two years life of 48 missiles, had already expired by March 2017. These assets acquired at a high cost would remain usable for significantly less period than their stipulated life. IAF replied (March 2017) that the life of Strategic missile system is extendable by another five years. Audit is of the view that until the Strategic missile system are commissioned, a significant part of their serviceable life would have been over without contributing to operational readiness and its strategic purpose. Further, with the five years extension to the life of Strategic missile system the maximum serviceable life is 15 years out of which many years have already been lost for many missiles. Further, as per the contract of December 2010, warranty period for Strategic missile system was 24 months from the date of successful commissioning whereas in respect of maintenance spares and test equipment (contract cost: `316 crore) it started from the date of their receipt. The requirement of spares during warranty period was to be provided by the vendor. Warranty of Strategic missile system did not start at any of the station as they were yet to be commissioned. But warranty period of the maintenance spares and test equipment had already commenced and expired in respect of one station in December 2016. By the time the Strategic missile system would be commissioned, warranty of the maintenance spares and test equipment would expire in respect of other stations also.

    Conclusion
    Based on the threat perception, Government of India in 2010 had envisaged induction of Strategic missile system for the IAF, in the ‘S’ sector to create deterrence. This deterrence capability was planned to be put in place between June 2013 and December 2015 in a phased manner. But till date, even after four years this urgently needed capability has not been created and the strategic objective remains unachieved. This was primarily due to the abnormal delay in creation of the infrastructure required for installation of the missile systems. About `4,000 crore has already been spent for the purpose.

    http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default...ent_Air_Force_Reports_of_Defence_Services.pdf
     
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  10. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  11. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Blackjay there is popular saying
    Indian military: need equipment with technology from 2020
    DRDO: designing stuff with 90s technology
    Indian PSU/military equipment manufacturer: with 60s/70 manufacturing technology. gives zero **** to quality/efficiency


    Don't be surprised if they imported components from China(stating they manufactured with cutting edge tech in-house )
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  12. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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    Completely agree...
    This is getting old.Just privatise these relics already.If not, allow private companies to compete with them in ALL fields.Even that is better though it might take 10-15 years for them to show proper result.These PSU guys will remain same forever.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Akash obviously.
     
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  14. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The problem with Akash system is these are not canisterized and so are open to atmosphere and Indian atmosphere being Extreme, harsh and dusty takes toll on everything, and could be one of the reason apart from the production quality. We should aim for only canister version of all types of missiles. Although they cost more initially it saves a lot in the long run.........
     
  15. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Why not create such storage facilities first, report said major problem is of delays in building infrastructures. BEL isn't going to replace faulty ones as there is no point to do so. Looks like IAF isn't looking to induct them now or maybe they are waiting for mark-2?
     
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