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AMCA: Updates and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DaRk KnIght, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Have faith, IAF is fully capable.. on top the Rafales will be the most cutting edge bird which even China cannot take on unless of course the CCP trolls decide to boast fake capabilities...

    There is a reason China fears India armed with Raffy.. and that fear is deep rooted to the fact that their own homegrown 5th gen project is not upto the mark..But then they won't accept it ever.. it's a charade like always..
     
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  2. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    Limited production from 2035, that's really depressing..... What's more depressing is the timeline for the production of tejas mk2, 2030 to 2035 is really late.
     
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  3. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This is always what was going to happen brother....

    It's just that some wishful and uninformed reporters and posters online started reporting and posting timelines like 2025 -2030...Which raised the expections of others...

    Most of the sensible people knew that the real timeline was always going to look like this...

    Even I had this same timeline in mind...(To be frank I expected 2040...But 2035 will do.)

    Anyway....Let's wish them luck and hope they deliver by 2030-2035...

    AFAIK The Design was finally freezed sometime last year... Official Design work started in 2011... Unofficially in 2008...I guess....
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  4. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    If you look at it. The first stated timeline for the first flight was in 2017 then it was moved forward to 2020. During Aero India 2015 it was said that the funds will be realised at the year's end and the first flight is expected in 2024 and now its 2030. ADA themselves kept changing the goalposts as they were heavily dependent on the pak fa tech to go into the super sukhois and the AMCA and now since the FGFA is delayed the timeline for the AMCA test flight is also further postponed to 2030.
     
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  5. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Oh Yeah...Even I remember these AMCA 'first-flight' timelines floating on the internet.

    2017/18 -> 2020 -> 2024 -> 2030 -> ?

    That's like a decade + of delay already... Every Time They Announced a delay I remember telling myself that this will be the last one...Yet there was more to come.

    One Could have expected delays in the LCA program....Since it was our first proper shot at Fighter Aviation...But Now even after having a substantial industrial base...We still have a decade of delay.... What Could be the reason for it....If the official design work started in 2011 why are they planning for a first flight in 2030...And LRIP in 2035....Who takes 25 Years for Design to Production...!? Seriously.

    Some may argue that this is our first 'stealth plane'....But that argument is completely invalid too... Because every time we build a new plane...It might as well be Technologically Novel and always a 'first experience'....

    PS : The Smaller labs like the LRDE , DARE, NPOL, NSTL .... actually do a very very good job and often with not more than a couple of years of delays....It's with the bigger labs like the ADA and NAL there is a lot more technical difficulty and inefficiency....

    PPS : All the best to the guys at the labs....All the best.
     
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  6. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    That's what happens when you have absolutely no competition in the aerospace industry. ADA and HAL already have there hands full with LCA mk1a and mk2.
     
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  7. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I guess this is wrong information. The Design is almost finalised, and even if stealth tests are not done and they have no Idea about it's RCS why then what they are doing from last 3-4 years changing design constantly?? There were more then 9-10 official designs. Only possibility is that these are the design validation tests on RCS figures.

    Even if design is not ready now and it takes 2 More years it should be ready by starting of 2019. So a first flight in 2030 is a bit too much time for prototype creation. When we had nothing Tejas took 8 years(1993-2001) for prototype building. And if 2030 true then we should consider at least 10 years for testing phase. So production will never start before 2040.

    At max prototype will be ready by 2025 for first flight. By then we will have our own AESA, and Engine also all the other critical techs will be mostly ready. So 2025-2035 development and Full production after that is understandable
     
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  8. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Yeah...The prototype for Tejas was Relatively quick....its the flight testing that's taking time....The Tejas has been on flight testing from 2001 , It's 2017 now and they still don't have a FoC, if they manage to get it in 2018 then that would be the culmination of 17 Years of flight testing for the Mk1.

    17 Years of flight testing...


    Cmde Balaji said that if there is support for the Mk2 the production will start by 2030 and There are also official sources pointing out that the first prototype of Mk2 will be ready by 2018 with first flight in 2020....So they are anticipating an almost '10 year' flight testing phase for the Mk2 it seems....


    Given the fact that a traditional flight testing phase is some 5-7 Years and moreover the Mk2 can be seen as an improvised iteration of the Mk. A flight testing phase of almost a decade seems....Well to say the least 'very lengthy'


    That is the textbook definition of slow.
     
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  9. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Even I hoped so brother....But this seems to be a part of an interview Shiv had with Cmde Balaji (ADA Head) in person....

    And, These are supposedly his quotes.

    It seems Senior Members are analysing the whole situation and in a matter of few days we should expect to hear their views on this matter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Do you all get why I pointed out to @vstol jockey that his LSA is relevant even in 2030?

    ADA's development plan for AMCA is 6 years of FSED followed by 9 years of flight testing. So if they start now, they will finish only in 2033. And this not counting delays, which are inevitable. That's why even ADA's chief says they are aiming for production in 2035.

    LSA can be delivered with Rafale/EF technologies by 2021-22. If not, his jet will still be state-of-the-art even in 2030.
     
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  11. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Cmde C.D. Balaji, chief at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) met with Livefist at the Aero India show for a chat on the programme. ‘This will be our first big learning process. We need to be sure about the conformal antennas and shapes before we finalise the airframe,’ he says. Another very crucial application the team plans to bring into play is computational electromagnetics, to simulate in parallel how the concept jet deals with radar and other assaults built to beat stealth.

    ‘About 60-70% of the stealth we intend will come from the aircraft’s shape. The rest we arediscovering as we develop the aircraft. Nothing like this has ever been attempted before,’ Balajisays.
    The team at ADA expects full-scale engineering development till the prototype stage to take at least a decade. Livefist also learnt that the teamnow has a specific timeframe for a first flight: 2030, with low-rate production to begin in 2035. ‘If you consider that the LCA Mk.1 will be built till 2024 and the LCA Mk.2, when ordered,should be built between 2030-35, then 2035 is good target for production of the AMCA,’ Balaji says.

    Everything is interconnected with each step. Delays in LCA program is pushing everything back by miles. Without creating an infrastructure, we simply cannot move from one project to the other. I cannot believe they want to build mk2 till 2035??? They are covering their asz too!!! They don't want to have an idle line either, they'll start loosing their talant they built up over the years. It's easier to them to delay it all but keep the line busy with orders. We're in a big mess, we need our private companies to start lifting some more weights...
     
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  12. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    He is clearly saying that MK-1 will be built till 2024(I believe he means MK-1A) and Mk-2 will be built from 2030-35. So what exactly they are going to do b/w 2024-2030??
     
  13. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Problem with Indian r&D agencies like ADA is they target what others have already made like designing 4th Gen Fighter LCA when it was clear world is moving to 4.5 gen with AESA sensor fusion and internal EW and then to stealth Fighters and now they are chasing 5th generation fighter and will complete when world would be moving for 5.5 gen and gearing up for 6th generation fighters. They don't think future but chase today. AMCA prototype should have been flying by now and should have been ready by 2025 max to be relevant.

    Even Dassault is targeting Rafale NG as 6th generation Fighter and not 5th gen.
     
  14. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    And then some people wonder that the IAF treats the PSU's unfairly....

    When the DPSUs finally finish development (usually after a decade of delay) the threat scenario and the rest of the world moves on to newer weapons...


    Hence the HAVE to change the requirements....

    Let's say the AMCA gets its FOC by 2033 who is to say that by that time there will be no novel change in Anti Aircraft Tech....Heck by the time we get 2 squadrons of AMCA even Pakistan will have brought some squadrons of 5th Gen aircrafts....



    Anyway....I wish all the best to the Agencies....
     
  15. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I am quite sure after 2020, ADA will seek foreign help for this project. Mostly France/Dassault & Israel. I see one positive thing about AMCA project and i.e they will manufacture 1:1 model for RCS testing at "Facility in Hydrabad" in 18 months. I didn't knew we had such facility.
     

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