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AMCA: Updates and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DaRk KnIght, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Production being 2030?
     
  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    One More Confirmation of The Above Timeline

    Breaking News, AMCA Project To Be Complected In 2019: Project Sources Confirm


    [​IMG]

    Noida: We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our “so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually it’s the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025(prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight.

    ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design.

    Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s Prototype which would start from 2018.

    We also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeed. Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/02/breaking-news-amca-project-to-be.html?m=1
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    No, FSED Phase 1 will be for 2 TDs and 2 prototypes, like LCA. Then we will have Phase II, with more prototypes and LSPs. IOC will happen only after 2033.

    It's BS news. Don't believe it. It's BS because it was true once upon a time ago and is not relevant anymore.

    The 2025 IOC date was for when FSED was to start in 2013. But now, they will decide which engine they will use only by 2020, then comes FSED.

    From 2017 to 2019-20, they will only work to optimize the design so there are no hiccups when development starts.
     
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  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Maybe you are true as it does take at least 10-15 yrs for testing alone. But it is also true that Modi govt and RM Parrikar especially are working to make India import free for defence products and in fact want to make India net exporter of defence products and hence may have pushed ADA, DRDO, & HAL together to make this happen.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Modi and Parrikar can't do anything to make AMCA's delivery faster.
     
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  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Wonder how well developing the engine last is going to work out, not so well last time.
     
  7. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    So it is all chai biscuit talks from chai biscuit Babus. Very sad.:(
     
  8. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    there will not be a flight before 2025. a lot of technologies being learnt in the process might be applied to LCA versions (maybe) but expecting a flight in 2019 is wayyyy beyond optimism. its way beyond fanboyism as well. it will only set us up for more heartbreak and then DRDO blaming/shaming. instead, lets have realistic timelines, lets agree that we are very much behind on critical technologies and give ourselves time to learn them.

    I would be very happy with a 2025 first flight time line. But I really wish that every new tech learnt should be applied to the LCA line ups to fine tune the tech by the time it is embedded into AMCA.
     
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  9. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    K9 is under-development, should be ready in 18 months. Options available also for F-414 untill.
    Once k9 is ready, there will be a updated engine.
     
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  10. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It is discouraging to hear that even the highest of levels of the elected government cannot, perhaps to a significant degree influence a set of government owned and managed institutions to ratchet up their speed in the interest of national security.


    If the Minister Of Defence and The Prime Minister cannot according to you, fast track a Critical Project...Then I wonder who can.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again.
     
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  12. ReddyMan

    ReddyMan FULL MEMBER

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    Prototypes can fly with different engines, as temporary placeholders.

    See: Rafale, flew with a GE-F404 engine during prototype stage until Snecma engine was ready.
     
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  13. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    India’s indigenous AMCA is set to fly on Russian technology
    25 February 2017 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA
    Russian thrust vectoring expertise and stealth technology will play a key role in shaping India’s future AMCA warplane. In the meantime, Moscow and New Delhi need to sort out the remaining issues in the PAK-FA stealth fighter.
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    FGFA, MILITARY AVIATION
    [​IMG]
    India is increasingly looking to localise production of aircraft. Source: Getty Images

    Even as India and Russia sort out the issues facing the PAK-FA, there are suggestions from certain quarters that the Indian Air Force should look elsewhere for its future stealth fighter. This is ironic, considering that India’s indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is set to fly on technology developed in Russia.

    K. Tamilmani, Chief Controller R&D (Aero) of the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), says India has the basic technologies but Russia is cooperating in critical areas such as thrust vectoring.

    Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency – which designed the Tejas warplane – had in 2015 asked for Russian assistance in getting the AMCA off the ground. Following a government to government memorandum, a number of Russian companies agreed to help out in the stealth aircraft project. The most significant partnership is between Klimov and the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) to develop three-dimensional thrust vectoring for the AMCA’s engines.

    Other partnerships include a joint venture between the Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) with the Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design for the development of an active electronically scanned array or AESA radar, and between ADA and Sukhoi for stealth and related technologies.

    [​IMG]
    Russian weapons that India could deploy in war


    The ADA has a long wishlist. It pitches the AMCA as one of the world’s top dogfight dukes, boasting “extended detection range and targeting, supersonic persistence and high speed weapon release”. Close-combat operations will be facilitated by “high angle of attack capability, low infrared signature and all round missile warning system.”

    A key Russian influence is supermanoeuvrability, which is defined as the ability of an aircraft to fly extreme manoeuvres such as Pugachev’s Cobra. Even the American F-35 stealth jet – which has swallowed $1 trillion during development – does not have supermanoeuvrability. It is an indication that the ADA is aiming for a truly world class fighter.

    Tamilmani says “four prototypes are expected in 2019”. That may sound overly optimistic – especially in the backdrop of stealth fighter programmes in the U.S., Russia and South Korea experiencing developmental issues. However, it is also a pointer to the Indian defence establishment’s confidence in its ability to develop an entire weapons platform from scratch after the success of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft.

    Different planes, different roles
    Sukhoi’s PAK-FA (Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi or Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces) is intended to be an air superiority warplane, with ground attack and reconnaissance being secondary missions. Known as the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) in India, it is a heavy aircraft that will perform the same role as the IAF’s Su-30MKI “air dominance” fighter.

    On the other hand, the AMCA is aimed at replacing much smaller ground attack jets such as the Mirage-2000, Jaguar and Mig-27. The IAF will always have a need for a mix of aircraft, including large, medium and small jets for a variety of combat roles. Therefore, replacing the FGFA with the AMCA makes no sense at all.

    Why is the FGFA important?
    India has a steep learning curve in stealth fighter development. In this backdrop, the knowledge gained from the FGFA will help India in the indigenous AMCA.

    To be sure, Indian scientists haven’t gained much hands-on experience in the project because the PAK-FA T-50 is a fairly mature aircraft for India to get substantial work share. In fact, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) – which initially hoped to get some development work from Sukhoi – has surrendered much of its quota of work.

    While the T-50 may be far down the developmental path, the Russian side insists the FGFA is a different bird meant for Indian skies. “This is an entirely new project for building a new aircraft,” says Viktor N. Kladov, Director, International Cooperation, Rostec, Russia’s largest state holding company in the defence sector.

    [​IMG]
    Stealth troubles: Why leading air forces want more traditional warplanes

    Even if the Indian role in the FFGA project remains confined to customisation – rather than joint development – it could still turn out to be valuable exposure for Indian scientists. Here one needs to look at the substantial Indian contribution to the Su-30 Flanker programme. The Indian MKI version of the jet is now the most advanced Flanker in the world, with the Russian Air Force also going in for the same standard. Customisation, therefore, shouldn’t be sneezed at.

    Synergies in FGFA and AMCA
    When India and Russia inked the FGFA deal in December 2011, HAL had only 15 per cent of the work share but was paying 50 per cent of the development cost. But India’s share in research-and-development was limited by its domestic industrial capabilities. The country had no expertise in stealth, which has taxed the world’s leading armament companies.

    However, India’s work share will gradually increase as local engineers and scientists gain experience in the concurrent AMCA and FGFA projects. According to Igor Korotchenko, head of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Global Arms Trade, “Russia will certainly provide all necessary knowledge and logistics support to Indian specialists, but developing skills and acquiring experience in design and development of advanced fighter aircraft takes a long time and substantial effort.”

    At Aero India 2017 in Bangalore, Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar saidthat the vexing issues in the FGFA were being sorted out. “There are some issues to be addressed in terms of manufacturing, how it will be exported after the project is completed and what approvals will be required,” he said.

    The Defence Ministry has constituted a team to look into the various aspects of the FGFA and it is likely to submit its report within a month after which things would be finalised. A three-star officer is heading the panel.

    Until the Tejas arrived, India had lacked a locally built jet fighter since the 1970s when it had the Marut and Gnat/Ajeet. Both were excellent fighters – especially the Gnat, which was a scare word in the Pakistan Air Force – but were retired quickly because the IAF wanted to only import foreign fighters. India thus lost development continuity. This blunder must not be repeated because airpower in the 21st century will reflect India’s manufacturing strength. With warplanes growing in complexity and costs, and hostile stealth aircraft about to debut in India’s neighbourhood, imports are certainly not an option.
    https://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_...ca-is-set-to-fly-on-russian-technology_705808

     
  14. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  15. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Did India just dumped United States and Signed up Eurojet EJ200 for AMCA with U.K? Published April 14, 2017 SOURCE: VISHAL KARPE / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG U.K.

    [​IMG]

    U.K. Secretary of State for Defence Sir Michael Fallon literally dropped a bomb when he said that India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and British Aerospace engine major Rolls-Royce are collaborating in co-development of a new gas turbine engine.

    Fallon just fell short of naming the engine which he was referring to but added that gas turbine engine in development will be highest thrust gas turbine engine developed by the company.

    Fallon also confirmed that the technology demonstrator of the co-developed engine will be ready in 12 months. idrw.org in an article posted (Trump Effect: Indo-US Joint defence collaboration in jet engines technology on Back Burner ?? ) few days back had hinted at discord and lack of any positive movement on proposed Indo-US collaboration on developing an uprated engine based on General Electric Aviation developed F-414 jet engines under Trump Administration.

    EuroJet Turbo Company who at Aero India 2017 had confirmed to idrw.org that they are still willing to offer Eurojet EJ200 engine for AMCA just clinched the deal? EuroJet Turbo GmbH had offered to co-develop EJ2x0 which has potential to generate 30% more power compared to the original EJ200 with a reheated output of around 120 kN from current 90kN developed by Eurojet EJ200 engine.

    AMCA India’s proposed 5th Generation Multi-role fighter jet has engine thrust requirements of 110kN. India’s shelved Kaveri project is being revived with help from Safran of France, which might power LCA-Tejas MK1A fighter in the future. Just to add a word of caution Indian media or DRDO is yet to confirm if India and UK are actually co-developing EJ2x0 engines for AMCA, we will have to wait to get official confirmation or clarity.

    idrw.org http://idrw.org/did-india-just-dump...igned-up-for-eurojet-ej200-for-amca-with-u-k/ .

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