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AMCA: Updates and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DaRk KnIght, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Indian media or DRDO is yet to confirm if India and UK are actually co-developing EJ2x0 engines for AMCA, we will have to wait to get official confirmation or clarity.

    So NO !!!!!, think is make no Sense! and a day dream of a Story!
     
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  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    IDRW cooking up stories.
     
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  3. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    if it is true, then it can be EJXXX
     
  4. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    In January end this year, a good friend confirmed the following which I had shared with few folks of this forum privately..

    When the F16/Gripen tango was going on one more item that was discussed is like this..Some snippets

    • DM MP has taken two more presentations on MII plane one of them was AMCA V2
    • And the other one we don't know but is said to to independent backed by Rolls-Royce and is said to have supercruise as its main attraction and they attacked LCA for lacking pure speed.
    • The AMCA V2 Russian design talk is already known.
    • AMCA upgraded design funding has been given the green light Russia is suppose to help it from the grounds up.
    • India has rejected the high speed design from Roscosmos due to their expensive nature and constant boost mode and because changing that would make the material choice according to MII very less.
    • Design is being shared and refined with the help of MiG since they have something with high velocity in the pipeline., they already offered MiG-25 based but much refined altered design but was rejected already.
    • AMCA V2 tbh borrows heavily from PAKFA and plans to use new 117 engines.
    • The reworked Russian design selected by DM and other after a wide meeting and presentation.
    • Tech from Russia is expected to be worked into the plane at a future stage.
    • Interestingly clause about maintenance is said to be integrated with main agreement.

    So it's still not clear who have taken the cake..

    Bcz beyond all this Kaveri is still getting work done and a upgrade for the same is also planned..
     
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  5. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    what is amca v2 and what about AMCA and FGFA ?
     
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  6. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    AMCA V2 is a Russian designed plane with Russian engines and heavily borrowed from experience of a high speed interceptor..

    It is suppose to share a lot more commanality to flanker family and PAKFA tech will be fitted into it..

    But it will be far smaller than PAKFA
    .The problem.is I don't understand why GOI is hearing all that from Russian folks..
     
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  7. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    The kind of investment our GoI has investing in the relation between India-US ,it is quite wishful thinking that we can dump US that easily .
     
  8. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Hello Sir ; what this means is that Russia will assist in AMCA

    SO we can also assume that PAK FA / FGFA will also be bought

    Because this is going to be Quid Pro Quo

    India Buys PAK FA ; Russia helps with AMCA

    By the Way ; Any Progress on the Single Engine Competition

    If Trump does nt Yield we can come to an early decision with GRIPEN
     
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  9. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Of course without the bigger carrot of PAKFA/FGFA the chance of AMCA V2 won't be there..

    The chief challenge I see is that AMCA as per our discussions like what we had with @Abingdonboy is suppose to be a plane with maximum Independence from all sides like Russia, France , USA etc.. when we go to Rostec we in a way go back to Russian dependency.. now that means you don't have faith in your own MIC which you did NT develop my getting some big MII projects and nurturing the ecosystem beyond the just LCA situation.

    The single engine has got stuck.. folks say PM modi will meet trump and request but then F16 won't be made in India so it's beyond me, why PM Modi still want to request.. may be some other game in that as well.. Gripen won't get clearance from USA to.operate USA MIC parts.. that's been clearly said.. so unless all that is swapped out, it's difficult..

    I did cover the USA issues in the main SE thread.. I firmly think focussing on LCA is the better choice.. but IAF needs lots of medium fighters.. and that means Rafales..

    If SE fighter talks happens then I would like PM Modi to talk about F35 and made in USA instead of F16 made in USA.. call me a bit odd.. but I do think if we can have LCA in sufficient numbers, like say 300 jets instead of 123, a 60 odd F35s can be an awesome force multiplier.. but that will mean commiting to a much higher LCA numbers as well.
     
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  10. Bregs

    Bregs Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So scrapping of MMRCA was a biggest blunder made, now what we have for sure for next 5 yrs is 36 Rafales. LCA mark 1 is below par so not much of a replacement for MIG 27 and aging Jaguars at best they can be shadow of MIG21 and when will 70 odd ordered LCA will come no one knows ?

    Now comes single engine new tender that too is no where in sight to be sealed any time soon if at all it would be. IAF SQ strength is going to be in mess post 2020 for sure
     
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  11. cannonballs

    cannonballs FULL MEMBER

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  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    upload_2017-4-16_23-42-38.png

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/amca-updates-and-discussions.1988/page-60#post-551120


    upload_2017-4-16_23-45-56.png

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/amca-updates-and-discussions.1988/page-60#post-551257

    ++


    Sorry moved those posts here just now.. Hope this helps

    But crux of the matter is

    AMCA V1 - Incomplete as all parameters could not be met in design stage itself as well as prelim study part
    AMCA V2 - russian design MII presentation given to DM MP - Nothing happened
    AMCA V2 - UK and RR gave presentation to DM MP - Nothing happenend
    AMCA V2 - Inhouse- V1 shortcomings addressed. Talked about tech flow from existing MII projects and scope of an upgraded Kaveri- Presentation given to DM MP - Nothing happened

    This is as on Jan End and Feb Beginning.

    Post DM MP resigning and new DM AJ takeover, nothing has progressed. The priority now is Strategic Partnership model being approved.. Only those can provide the missing building blocks for the AMCA V2 Inhouse by a MII project or 2. Chiefly a medium category and a SE category bird being made. In this case even the new LCA radar and EW suites will help us as the winning OEM will be used to upgrade and source many more things. Same thing for Rafale MII where many parts will flow into the V2 version..

    The chief challenge is now FGFA project where PAKFA moves at its own pace and Russia has been pushing us for 4 sqds of pakfa or 65-72 birds for almost 1.5 years. The work out for the tech part is getting difficult.. They wanted AMCA V2 and in return wanted to share PAKFA tech .. Now we have to see how it works out. Bcz AMCA should have maximum independence over any other country dependence. so we have to wait and watch
     
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  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    All clear for US parts on Gripen

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...xt-gen-jet-with-new-engine-design/365251.html

    Sweden says has it an initial clearance from the US for selling its Gripen fighter jet to India with American-built general electric (GE) engines, said Jan Salestrand, State Secretary in the Ministry of Defence. Manohar Parrikar had earlier said foreign firms competing for deals under “Make in India” need to get clearances from respective governments to set up manufacturing units in India.


    doubt if USA is interested in opposing a strong Indian Military. US might have problems with India subsidizing Russian weapons.


    F35 as at 80 million each would be a lot cheaper then 240 million Rafales.

    With Russia cutting there defense budget 25 percent this year I would not expect much from Russia.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2017
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  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Not really AA.

    Trump Admin did not even look at such files in jan end or feb. Prez Trump and his team reviewed the F16 sale and F16/Gripen parts clearance to India things in march (2nd part of the month) .

    So the shocker will come later.. In the meantime Saab will say they have replaced many parts with Brazil deal parts but even that is unproven and inconclusive.

    in fact PM Modi will talk with Prez Trump on this matter and since POTUS will insist on Made in USA , we will finally shift from F16 to F35 talks
     
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  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I doubt if the number of parts India needs is going to impact the US economy, and there is the fact that Indian does not have the technology to make some of the parts like engines.
     
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