Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Anti-EU Sentiment Thread

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by BMD, May 21, 2016.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Pay more attention, they already have done, along with most of Europe.
     
  2. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    A lot of countries will follow if we go.
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    The money gets wired directly off-shore as I understand it. But like I said, if you make life too difficult, they just skip country unless you have worldwide agreement. Even with this in place, everyone still needs to pay their way and there is no room for foreign, unskilled, low income workers who can't.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    That will be taxed. Right now it's not being taxed. Rather the banks and the corporates pay regular corporate taxes over their profits. BJP says tax collection will increase 3 times if a banking levy is applied over regular taxes.

    Bro, are you kidding me? Corporate tax will be completely removed. Why will they leave? India is a bigger market than Europe and the US combined. If they leave it's their loss.

    This type of system ensures they are paying the same amount of taxes a regular well paid Brit is. Obviously highly paid Brits will pay more taxes in the form of consumption while also saving a lot of money for themselves, something a lower paid immigrant cannot match. The increase in consumption will ensure greater inflation for Britain which means more growth.

    Take Britain's banking system for example.
    According to this site, annual transfers between financial houses is 50 times bigger than the UK GDP.
    https://www.tuc.org.uk/economic-iss...-transaction-tax-could-raise-£30-billion-year

    That's 75T pounds a year. A 2% levy on that would bring that to 1.5T pounds. That's twice more than Britain's total revenues today. And this is not even considering all the transfers that happens between other companies and individuals. And you are taxing many types of commodities anyway, so consumption will generate even more tax. Overnight, Britain can abolish income tax and generate about 3-4 times the current revenues. That's an even bigger advantage than what India has.

    Even for a regular person, he will end up paying less tax than he did before. At Rs50K a month, his banking tax would be Rs1K a month. Today he is paying Rs3.75K without deductions.

    India's annual electronic transfers alone were $22T in 2013. Will be much higher now.

    Gotta hand it to the BJP for coming up with this insane idea.
     
  5. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    How can it be taxed though? It never passes through a domestic bank.

    If they lose more money they'll leave.

    Wouldn't be possible, if minimum wage labourers paid same as average tax plus NI, it would half their net wage and make it impossible for them too survive.

    All good in theory, but those financial transfers would go elsewhere if that levy was introduced, unless the world agrees to it.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    It's simple. In case they have done a cash transaction, then they got the cash from a bank in the first place, so there is a transaction tax.

    It's very difficult to do overseas cash transactions with huge amounts of money.

    And this tax isn't just for banks, it is for all financial institutions. So it will apply to wire transfers also.

    How? All experts are in favour of abolishing tax. They save more money through paying lesser salaries right there. Possibly up to 15%. And they can save 40% in corporate taxes anyway.

    If they leave, they lose the market. That is obvious. So they won't.

    If a company invests $5B in a year, a single transaction fee will cover $100M. Any money they make after that is after tax profit. If they make a profit of 20% on the $5B, they gain $900M. In the current regime, they will lose $400M. Who in their right mind will leave?

    There will be a minimum threshold for tax to apply.

    You want to make a transaction in India, you are taxed, it's that simple. There is nothing the world can say or do in a sovereign nation. Any bank or bank branch in India will have to follow RBI rules. It's the same everywhere, not just in India.
     
  7. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    If you pay with the purchase then that's just the same as VAT, which we already have.

    Well then you're raising less revenue overall if companies are making more profit and not paying income tax. Except they'll still have to pay a kind of income tax when the money goes into the employees bank.

    So that still leaves the same problem for the UK and low income migrant labourers not paying enough tax/NI.

    Then they will operate outside India and only customers paying in shops will face the transaction fee.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    I didn't get that.

    Basically, in India there won't be VAT. Only a banking transaction, and customs and import duty.

    2% of overall amount of transactions per year are more than the current yearly tax collection. In 2013, electronic transactions were $22T. That's $440B in taxes. Non-electronic transactions not included, but should be about 1/3rd the electronic. Overall tax collection was much much much lower in comparison. Even if taxable transactions are half that value, the transaction tax is much higher than regular taxes.

    The issue with India is people avoid taxes a lot, a hella lot. So it's more convenient to simply remove taxes and put a bank tax. People can't avoid banks.

    What it does is put British citizens and low income earners at the same level. The tax burden is no longer on British citizens only. The extra benefit is, immigrants who send money overseas will be taxed, it will help keep money in the country. So it is fair, leans quite a bit on the British side in fact.

    Plus, your revenues are at least twice as big, so there shouldn't be any complaints if your budget has suddenly increased by two times.

    The companies will have to pay tax if they want to take their profits out of the country, or even invest the money in new ventures.
     
  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    But paying on a banking transaction when purchasing is the same as VAT.

    Well again, sounds a lot like stamp duty too. We employ both VAT, stamp duty, fuel duty, income tax and corporation tax to diversify the tax revenue portfolio.

    People can easily avoid banks in your country though.

    Well again, if all income going into the bank is taxed at 20%, people earning minimum wage won't be able to afford to live, so likely minimum wages will increase. And even if everyone is taxed at 20%, immigrants on low income will still pay too little in absolute terms.

    The money will go directly out of the country once paid at the shop.
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    The banking tax is just 2%. It's not the same as VAT.

    They can't if this system is implemented. Cash transactions will be limited to Rs 2000. Rs 500 and 1000 notes will be withdrawn. Rs 100 will be the largest denomination. If they switch to black money, they will have to bring trucks to carry their money around.

    1 Crore Rs or 10M Rs weighs 12Kg if you are using 1000Rs notes. With 100Rs notes, the weight is going to be well over 100Kgs.

    Who the hell can avoid banks if just 10M Rs will weigh more than your full body weight? That's just about $150,000. That's peanuts. Black money is worth trillions, estimated to be 30 trillion rupees maybe higher, about 1/3rd of the GDP. That's 300M kilos of currency notes if the economy switches to 100 Rs notes.

    The govt won't even print that much. And people won't be able to use this currency anyway because transactions will be limited to just Rs 2000. Haha. You won't be able to wire transfer cash either, so they won't get forex for it.

    If the money goes out, which it won't because more than 90% of the Indian economy is domestic, it will still be taxed.

    Anyway this system will take time because India is still developing and not many people have bank accounts. That's why it's a Vision 2025 goal. But Britain can implement such a system in just a few years since everybody has bank accounts.
     
  11. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    So how will it raise more than VAT, which is currently 20%.

    Companies' holding accounts will be off-shore, money paid by customers is wired directly there outside Indian jurisdiction. So you can only tax at point of purchase, which is basically VAT.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    Because people are evading income tax far too much and consumption is obviously significantly lower than banking transactions.

    I already told you, the total electronic transfers in 2013 was $22T. Consumption during the same period was just about $1.3T.

    20% of $1.3T is peanuts compared to 2% of $22T. Basically, people will be taxed on their banking transaction, not on what they purchase from the market.

    The process of wiring is also taxed. That's the purpose of this BTT. The company still has to pay the 2% banking tax because the tax will apply at the source, which is India. There's no getting around this system. It's basically a cashless society, where cash is practically useless and electronic payments are subject to scrutiny, so the bank itself becomes the tax collector.

    It doesn't matter if the company wants to keep the money in India or take it overseas, it needs a bank for whatever it chooses to do because there's no cash involved and that is taxed. The entire process is so simple that it has been criticized for oversimplifying taxation.

    Some of the criticism made doesn't hold true either. They say the agriculture industry which is currently not taxed will come under taxation. That doesn't make sense because a farmer's bank account will have his identification. Produce transactions can have a separate bank account with separate rules favouring non-taxation.

    They say the poor will be taxed more than the rich. That also doesn't make sense because you can have a minimum transaction which is not taxable. And a system can be put in place that will link all bank accounts an individual has so the minimum amount and transactions can be monitored. Say 4 transactions of less than 5,000 a month. Which means you can make 4 transactions every month for 5000 or less across all your bank accounts which is non-taxable. That's 20,000 a month or 240,000 a year, which is about the same as the current non-taxable income in India (250,000). The poor and the low paid can avoid taxes completely. Transfers between dependents can also be non-taxable, like spouse, parents and children. This will prevent illegal transfers between family members which is a very common form of tax evasion today.

    Then some claim that people will hoard cash. But these people have no clue that cash will be useless, with the biggest allowed transaction to be just Rs 2000. So there's no point hoarding something that has no value.

    The only problem with this system is vested interests with a lot of black money in hidden cash and the oblivious poor in India who don't know much about banks.

    But it's so easy to regulate and monitor banks. Nobody can escape BTT.
     
  13. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    I don't think you understand how banking works. You can only impose tax on banks inside your jurisdiction, companies will simply go off-shore. Only regular working and middle class people will be left on-shore.

    And the only time you can tax wiring is upon a purchase a la VAT, after that it'll all be off-shore.
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,799
    Likes Received:
    5,780
    What makes you think INR will go outside India? When did INR suddenly become a global currency? INR has to be converted to USD or Euro if you want it to go offshore. What makes you think a foreign bank will freely convert INR to USD?

    Dude, all currencies that go offshore first have to travel through an Indian bank. That's the system here.
    If a person owns a Skrill, Paypal account, he cannot use that money without first transferring to an RBI approved Indian bank. The same rules for all.

    If a consumer buys from a merchant, and the money from the merchant directly goes offshore without going through an RBI approved Indian bank, that's illegal and also impossible. Who do you think converts INR?

    Nobody can escape BTT. Literally nobody.
     
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,130
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Every currency is a global currency. They'll send it off-shore and it'll either sit in a bank or be converted to USD or other.

    Nope, they don't. If a company is registered to the Cayman Islands, it goes directly there.

    INR, like other currencies, can be converted anywhere.
     

Share This Page