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Anti-EU Sentiment Thread

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by BMD, May 21, 2016.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Fat chance, the EU is a hugely protectionist organisation, especially when it comes to products from regions of low price labour.
     
  2. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    https://www.theguardian.com/busines...s-lips-over-end-of-eu-quotas-and-price-fixing

    UK sugar industry licks lips over end of EU quotas and price-fixing
    Move will allow farmers to produce as much sugar beet as they want – although retention of tariffs on cane version will hurt Tate & Lyle



    [​IMG]
    The UK sources about 60% of its sugar beet from domestic producers. Photograph: Dan Chung/for the Guardian
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    Richard Partington

    Friday 29 September 2017 06.00 BST

    The end to almost fifty years of Brussels protectionism this weekend is set to shake up Britain’s sugar industry – with the potential for boom or bust for producers. But there’s a sweetener for consumers, as prices are expected to fall.

    The European Union is abolishing its system of quotas and minimum pricing for sugar from Sunday 1 October, in one of the biggest changes for British agriculture in recent years. The UK’s 3,500 growers of sugar beet – a sweet root vegetable that looks like a turnip – and the country’s sole refiner, British Sugar, expect the change to allow them to increase production by 50% annually.

    It’s an industry that supports nearly 10,000 jobs across the country, helping the UK to consume roughly 2m tonnes of sugar a year. About 60% comes from home-grown beets, while another 15% comes from the EU and the remainder is from imported cane sugar.

    The sugar rush comes as the EU scraps limits on production for the first time since 1968. Britain had been limited to producing little more than one million tonnes a year, which has led to stockpiling following bumper harvests. British Sugar, a part of the Associated British Foods conglomerate, plans to immediately increase production to 1.4m tonnes next year from 900,000 tonnes in 2017.

    Paul Kenward, the company’s managing director, said: “I’m optimistic and our growers are too. In the past you could bang on my door and say you wanted more sugar, but I had to say no even if I could make it. Now that is changing.”

    But with the vote to leave the European Union, higher taxes on sugary drinks and a government push to wean consumers off unhealthy treats, the industry may face a sticky future. Producers will also be more exposed to the global sugar price as protections recede.

    Brussels is also keeping punitive tariffs on imported cane sugar – which makes a substance chemically identical to beet – in a bitter development for one of the oldest names in the British sweetening industry, Tate & Lyle Sugars. The company was one of the most vocal proponents of Brexit for just this reason.

    Gerald Mason, the firm’s senior vice-president, said: “This [end of EU quotas] is a pretty depressing milestone for us. We’re already running at a loss, and these changes will only exacerbate that.”

    The makers of the famous Lyle’s Golden Syrup at its factory in east London will continue to face EU tariffs just as the global sugar price dips ahead of the anticipated European boom in beet production. Brexit offers the potential to sidestep the EU tariffs, although it could also lead to other changes that are difficult to forecast.

    British beet farmers are eyeing a jump in exports as the World Trade Organisation removes limits on EU sugar in exchange for Brussels dropping its pricing and quota system.

    Consumers could benefit from falling prices, although not immediately, according to Callum Macpherson at the City bank Investec. “If prices are passed through to consumers, where you might see a noticeable effect, at some stage, is on the cost of buying a bag of sugar in the supermarket,” he said.

    There could however be trouble ahead for growers, fearing a repeat of the removal of the EU milk quota system in 2015. That led to a crash in prices, which drove some British dairy farmers out of business.

    Prices have since recovered amid a scarcity of supply after so many producers opted to leave the industry. That has led butter prices to soar more than 20% in the past year to record levels, as farmers and dairies struggle to cope with demand, pushing up the cost of cakes, croissants and other goods on the supermarket shelves.

    Brussels observers estimate the European beet crop for next year to be at least 16% more substantial than the one being harvested now, although they reckon the most competitive nations are the ones that will have increased capacity most. While the UK is among one of the best in the world, the EU describes the “sugar belt” of Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Poland as the most competitive.

    Patrick Allpress, a farmer who grows sugar beet alongside leeks, onions and wheat over 2,000 acres of land in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, said British growers may see more competition from continental rivals. “Now the chains are off and the quotas are coming down, any country can do what they want,” he said.

    Farmers could find themselves with staff shortages or higher costs as low-skilled European migrant workers leave Britain following the Brexit vote. The industry is thought to need about 90,000 seasonal workers a year by 2021, on top of the more than 250,000 permanent workers – more than three-quarters of whom now come from the EU. However, beet isn’t as hard to pick as some crops and the process has already been heavily automated, which could limit the impact.

    The opportunity to grow without limits is enticing some farmers to plant more and some companies to invest. Dubai-based Al Khaleej International is considering a huge new factory, which would be the first to open in the UK for 90 years, close to Harrogate in Yorkshire.

    British Sugar – which operates four sites across east Anglia and the east Midlands – argues that Britain can export more to the EU and global markets. It estimates that beet yields have improved by more than 25% in the UK in the last 10 years.

    Kenward said: “On the risk side, is that my competitors in Europe have been holding back due to volume quotas. But we’ve prepared for it, and can now sell to customers in the UK, EU and around the world.”

    Across the EU, sugar production next year is now forecast at 20.1m tonnes, about 20% more than this year’s crop. Imports are expected to fall to 1.5m tonnes, while exports are forecast to double to 2.8m tonnes.

    A government spokesperson said: “The removal of EU sugar beet quotas will enable British growers compete on a level playing field with other sugar producers around the world.”
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Think of all those poor unemployed Renault, Citroen and Peugeot staff if no deal is reached. Perhaps Macron will be able to feed their families with bullshit instead.
     
  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    UK is a marginal market for French car.
     
  5. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You'd be wrong.

    [​IMG]

    https://fullfact.org/europe/german-cars-uk/

    About 1 in 7 German cars are sold in the UK

    https://www.best-selling-cars.com/britain-uk/2016-q1-britain-best-selling-car-brands-models/


    75,000 French cars sold in UK every quarter, so about 300,000 every year. 10% of total UK car sales.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38516247

    UK car sales at record high in 2016

    And let's face it, you have street protests over nothing in France every day, imagine what it'd be like if they actually had a reason.


     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The only thing that could make us protest is that UK seeks to return to Europe
    Peugeot production ‎2,024,006
    Citroen production 1,244,252
    Renault production 3,180,000
    Total ~ 6,450,000 ==> 300,000 is negligible, UK is a very small market.
     
  7. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    How many jobs associated with that 5%. 20,000 is the answer. Your unions will go beserk on the streets.

    You are a noisy minority.
    http://www.politico.eu/article/poll-the-eu-is-bad-news-but-britain-shouldnt-leave-it/
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Hold a referendum and prove me wrong.
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We have to wait for UK to leave before....
     
  11. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Why? Either your people love the EU like you say, or they don't. Is democracy suddenly scary for you?

    And bear in mind that the vast majority of the car sales you quote are not French cars made in France, they are French cars made by Asians in Asia etc. Britain is right next to France and your exports here make up a significant part of actual French manufacturing jobs and with the £ already low against the Euro, once you add WTO tariffs to that, a Peugeot 208 will probably cost more than a Jaguar XE. And not being funny here, but Jaguar XE vs Peugeot 208, that's not even close.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  12. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    This is what it all boils down to in Europe. "Oh, the majority of our citizens are in favour of the EU, but we don't want them to have a referendum."
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Up to you , replace 300 000 Peugeot by 300 000 Jaguar XE, Indian people will be Happy.
     
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  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes, and so will the British workers who make them here, which will add to our GDP. Ditto for Golfs, which are more expensive than 208s. 1,000,000 cars from Germany. 1,000,000 cars at 30k each, that's £30bn. Add French, Spanish and Swedish cars and it's more like £60bn, or +3% GDP. Yep, Jaguar will have to expand like a motherfucker. We may even have to make some of them in India due to the numbers. Perhaps if Visegrad drops out, we could even make some there and give them real growth rather than fake subsidised growth.

    @Gessler, @omya, @Himanshu Pandey, @LionsDen, @akshat01 @randomradio, @vstol jockey
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
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  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    A lot of carmakers (including Hyundai, Ford, Renault-Nissan, VW, Suzuki etc.) have set up manufacturing hubs in India as it's cheaper to make and export them from here. The economics make a lot more sense if the destination country has it's steering on the right side (this line can be used for both exports/domestic sales). The production & export of certain Hyundai & Nissan models happens exclusively from India.

    http://auto.economictimes.indiatime...nd-suvs-exporters-from-india-in-2016/56584637

    All these plants have contributed a great deal to increasing both the local production/export prospects, so much so that: http://www.autocarpro.in/analysis-reports/india-surpasses-china-passenger-car-exports-20224

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...india-chennai-port-hyundai/article9669143.ece

    But the recent economic reforms will slow this growth.

    As for European carmakers in India, I think currently VW rules the roost. They've been operating here for long and they have really huge plants and production capacities in Chakan, near Pune.

    JLR has an assembly plant in Pune too, while Renault-Nissan has a plant near Chennai with a 400k per annum capacity (these two cities are the production hubs for automobiles) for making cars of both companies.
     

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