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Arihant Class SSBN - India's Domestic Nuclear Submarine

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by SpArK, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA

    Dear sir, thank you for the update. This is great news and the country should be proud of this development. This would surely boost India's credible nuclear deterrence, specially with respect to China. If India is successfully able to master MIRV technology and demonstrate its effectiveness and accuracy during user trials with K6 & Agni 6. This would ensure that the same technology can also be used on Agni 5 as well. This would further strengthen our nuclear missile program with Surya being the final piece in the Indian jigsaw puzzle. The only other thing required is that India speed up the development and induction of various conventional and nuclear submarines. Which as per you is already in the process of expediting all future developments. This is a welcome change, considering the rapid expansion of Chinese nuclear and conventional subs. Now that they have built a new world class submarine building facility, which would churn out subs in record time. All that is left now is to keep our fingers crossed and hope that there are no more delays.
     
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  2. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    How come MSM didn't even get a glimpse of S3 being launched a year earlier? No one noticed it leaving the harbour? I mean im sure you can make out the difference btw S2 & 3 as the later is longer in size. Literally how could they manage a blackout on the most anticipated ship? Obviously pak could have known it rite? There is no chatter or complaining from ther side also
     
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  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Blanket ban for national security.. Aggressively pursued and taken down by NSA.

    Its a black project. You can get past news, future news is almost very very difficult.

    People know about this project who had been associated with either the project directly or as a part of the chain or in forces. Its a huge list who knows about them but have remained mum due to sensitive nature.

    We could disclose it now bcz already it has moved far ahead and there is no threat to national security about it. OTOH we all are feeling proud how we have been able to make our own SSBNs successfully.

    Pakistan knows via China. They dont have direct access due to the sensitive nature of the project.. China may have heard this 3rd hand.. First hand information is impossible for them.. 2nd hand via USA is possible... As an example, USA knew about integration of K-15 with INS Arihant in 2013 final stages and some of their public documents carry that as well.

    Why do you suppose Pakistan showed urgency for 8 subs deal and also from 2001 it has been trying to deploy Nuke weapons in Cruise missiles inside subs. In 2009 onwards, when they started hearing that INS Arihant systems are slowly getting matured with repeated tests , they started preparing for the eventual day of Indias successful completion of Nuclear Triad.

    In May 2012, Pakistan formally inaugurated the headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command, a move directly aimed at taking baby steps for the same 2nd strike capability. They have been trying for some time to equip even their surface ships with tactical missiles and tried hard for P3C orions to use as stand off aircraft for firing nuke tipped CMs.

    As of now they have been unsuccessful in few of such items except Naval version of babur at 700 km range. They tried fitting such weapons in agosta but could not do so and also integrating with P3C did not work out as per their plans This was the precusor for them to seek Chinese Subs which can fit these missiles and also try and get a hand in a SLBM via that route.
     
  4. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Isn't it easier for Pakistan to know about this project first hand? I mean
    they could have some guy sitting across the harbor entrance and report all ships going in and out. They could be finding about the progress by paying of a welder or a low level employee working inside the plant. Is Blanket ban so effective than even low level humint work get past it?
     
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  5. Vidyanshu

    Vidyanshu Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    made my day. Thanks a lot
     
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  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    A low level worker or a joker sitting at the entrance will only know the the progress of project NOT the capability of any warship!!!
     
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  7. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I wasn't talking about the capability. I'm just amazed with the media ban. Atleast we would have heard some chatter on the Pakistani side that India already launched the second one. I'm wondering how many resources were put into keeping the news off limits from every media house
     
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  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only Nation to have "First hand information" could be Russia as they were very much involved in the project and to some extent USA as they got some of the best snooping satellites and foot soldiers (CIA operatives).
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    @Bloom 17

    I have a personal collection of pic of Arihant moving out ... can not and will not post it for obvious reasons - it shows how it is moved out. Very difficult to know a move is on well in advance. I happened to notice it just as it slipped quietly away.

    One can not approach within 500 meters of the jetty where the nukes are. Even then, only if you are on allowed list, having documentation for access for the day and if then, you are monitored.

    Also, as for a casual observer observing, the Port entry to Vizag has a Mosque and a Church to the North of the the entry .. so take your pick, but I doubt they can make out a sub moving in the way it is moved .. even if they make it out, difficult for them to know in which direction it has moved.

    Also, very difficult for even US satellites to pick up the subs in warm waters of BoB.
     
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    SBC has a difficult way of entry and information is not accessible to all.. of course they would have tried... but getting a proper specs versus a low level information holds limited value...

    They know whats going on for sure.. What they dont know is how its going on which they can try and replicate..

    Also its difficult to get a place to click pic from SBC entry and exit...or else we would have seen a flood of online pics of the same.
     
  11. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA before a year, most people believed there will be 3 Arihant class + 3 Aridhaman class.
    What is the reason we skipped following 2 Arihant class?
    1. We are confident about our design or mastered the tech. Arihant 1 served its purpose as TD
    2. We found some issues or drawback with Arihant( except no of missiles), which we solved the issue in Aridhaman
    3. No one has any clue abt our SSBN


    I wish its 1 & 3
     
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  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Only two reasons -

    1. Tech maturity happening slowly and steadily.(same as your point 1)
    2. Survival Chance in case of any eventuality which gives a better scope of retaliation.

    BTW we never skipped it nor we did changes as many newspaper claimed about P Chidambaram sending the file back with a request to increase silos. It was always from Day 1 that number as hulls were made to accomodate the same.

    The 4 silo sub is basically our own little experiment + TD+ experiencing a SSBN on the job data collection+ experience first hand for deterrent patrolling+ etc etc

    The 8 silo ones are basically stand alone triad maintenance at all times.

    The 12 silo one is basically up-scaling the learnings and industrial know how further up the chain and enabling better mission specs of missiles mix + accommodating more fatter and longer ranged missiles

    Eventually the 16 silo will become the standard size which will give us the true blue SSBN and will help us have the best possible recessed deterrence mix available as and when deemed necessary.

    Recessed deterrence as defined in google is

    Recessed deterrence may be defined as a credible nuclear weapons capability which a country is able to draw upon for political and diplomatic purposes, and is able to deploy a nuclear arsenal within a defined time-frame and effectively use it physically for military purposes

    Thus from the availability POV, survival and a credible triad which gives us recessed deterrence posture, its important to up the size of submarine and the firepower with credible numbers.

    In a way SSBN and SSN with ICBMs and SLBMS with MIRV is a reflection of the military might which is affordable only with a growing economy which can sustain all such platforms in terms of money, technology, industrial knowledge and manpower equipped for manufacturing such systems locally.
     
  13. proud_indian

    proud_indian FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA @anyone

    we have been making SSBNs for a while now and have locally made at least two SSKs designs under TOT. Why do we still need another SSK of foreign origin?
     
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  14. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only real Pictures of INS Arihant are from the deliberately leaked Video, that's it. Even the 2009 INS Arihant launch Foto is fake of mock up sub and not the real thing...........
     
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  15. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Broadly, the capability for indigenization, not including the design, is determined by the following factors:-
    (1) Technology and trained manpower
    (2) Material
    (3) Infrastructure

    We have attained sufficient expertise in 209s only to lose the the point 1 part and with scorpenes we are in
    process of attaining all 3 points again.

    But in IN owns estimate at least 9+ submarines are needed to actually have good localisation and indigenised content in it



    pic1.png

    During the construction of Shishumar and Scorpene class submarine we have realized that unless we have a plan for construction of a series of boats more than 10, we will not be able to assure the industry for indigenization of critical equipment. The concept of mass production only can bring in the kind of impetus in the private sector undertakings.

    Thus ideally i would have preferred a 10-12 Scorpene sub with higher indigenous content as combination of P75+P75I and start P76 directly as Indian SSK design based program
     

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