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Arihant Class SSBN - India's Domestic Nuclear Submarine

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by SpArK, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. proud_indian

    proud_indian FULL MEMBER

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    It seems most logical to me as well, It's a very costly affair and takes a long time to train such high skilled manpower, and for what only 5 boats?
    We did the same mistake with 209s and I think we are repeating the same mistake again. I mean making at least 5 more scorpene using the existing infrastructure makes the most sense to me.

    Maybe after that we do not require anymore SSKs and we can jump straight to SSNs!
     
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  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    A follow on order of a minimum 3 more scorpenes with DRDO AIP is much desirable to arrest fall in submarine numbers as P75 I tender process will take time and IN is in dire straits with regards to sub surface warfare platform and with China intruding Indian Ocean regularly it is a necessity indeed.
     
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  3. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA wen can we expect the first ssn to be launched?
    Considering S2 launched in 2009 and inducted recently is the first ssn going to take similar timeframe for sea trials?
     
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  4. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I think P75 & P75I are different just to gain some insight about other techs, to further incorporate it in indigenous SSK, otherwise IN wouldn't waste resource on other type of sub through P75I.

    P75I thus looks good prospect but little expensive.
     
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  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Idea was a VLS enabled a bit heavier design..

    The change that happened now is tube launched SLCM via Brahmos variant. Thus a new submarine is not a necessity.. The tubes and vertical silos (via SSBN) is more or less perfected..

    May be we can try a 8 Torpedo tube submarine with 4 for torpedoes and 4 for LACM or AShM.

    The other was the issue of having another Sub builder besides MDL to look for 2 lines operating simultaneously

    I would estimate around 2021-22 timeline...
    reason being SSN needs a 190-200 MW reactor. Unless we try a SSN with 150 MW and do follow the same route like Arihant and make subsequent SSN better, it will be a bit of tough choice to expect sooner than that..
    We need a 30-35Kn speed submerged and 20-24 when surfaced. So without a powerful reactor, it will be a challenge.

    We will hear once the induction (harbor +weapon trials) are completed and when news is atleast 1 + year older..

    I hope DRDO AIP is avilable bcz Fuel Cell AIP tech is one of the high needs for our subs.

    a follow on batch of 3 is expected anytime... i hope they plan for 4-5 more as MDL line 2 have modular construction scope of all such numbers simultaneously implying we can get all tehse follow on in flat 5 years together.
     
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  6. Masterhunter

    Masterhunter FULL MEMBER

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    Will it not be cheaper to have follow on six scorpenes subs with AIP than the new project 75I for 8 billion.

    And yes I also feel that in era of tube launched Anti ship missile or SLCM, is it worth to have a VLS capability and then invest so much money ot it for just six subs.

    Choosing scorpenes will also reduce the number of variety and hence the logistics and MRO expenses.

    In your opinion, how much should it cost us to build follow on scorpenes with AIP ... 3 or 6 number
     
  7. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    People who work in around the yards nearby do spot things. But after 2013, its ensured pics aren't clicked. Most of the HSL people who spot things, cannot distinguish.....
    Further there are Israelis and Russians too.... taking part in another important projects..... all in all 2013-2014 late has seen a dramatic change in security.

    And no, even the engineers who worked on repairing ships nearby, didn't know anything about what happened in SBC till 2011....
     
  8. Ramdas2

    Ramdas2 IDF NewBie

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    @PARIKRAMA If K-6/A-6 is going to be a reality soon, what is the role and use of the K-5? Can these longer range SLBMs be fired from INS Arihant/Aridhaman ? Without MIRVs, these SSBNs will not carry enough firepower.
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Nuclear dissuasive posturing is based on a complex matrix of causing unacceptable damage on an enemy and yet leaving its leadership intact.

    You need conflict resolution as end objective.....which always needs the political leadership of enemy nation to come about. I hope you get the idea.
     
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    A simpler answer -
    1. Unitary warhead - 1.3 M Dia
    2. MIRV 4 with 500 kgs - 1.3 M dia
    3. MIRV 6 - 500 kg - 2M dia
    4. MIRV 10 - 350 kg+ - 2.5+ M dia

    1 and 2 will come in K4
    3 and solitary/uni warhead option in K5 with range increase to reach upper margin of 6k km
    4 and multiple mission option will come with K6 with range enhancement to reach 8-10K km

    1 and 2 will be arming Arihant and Aridhaman

    3 and 4 will be in S5 and beyond heavier subs.

    K6 diameter requirement exceeds 2.5m and thus the cavity and shell will require additional margin. Thus the submarine will require to be longer, fatter and heavier reactor.
     
  11. kurup

    kurup 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Does that mean we are going for a double hulled Akula design as our SSN ??
     
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  12. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Navy's N-sub INS Aridhaman loaded with lethal features as India eyes underwater prowess
    INS Aridhaman can carry more missiles than Arihant and can also move faster underwater.

    Last Updated: Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 00:40
    [​IMG]
    Represntational image/ Pic credit - DRDO

    New Delhi: India will soon launch its second indigenously-built nuclear submarine INS Aridhaman to boost its underwater fighting prowess.

    The new vessel, being built at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam, is loaded with numerous advanced features.

    INS Aridhaman has more missile-carrying capacity than its sister sub INS Arihant, which was inducted into service in 2009.





    The submarine can move faster underwater and carry ballistic missiles such as the K-15 and K-4. These missiles can reportedly hit targets as far as 3500 km.


    INS Aridhaman, which is being built under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project, can carry up to 24 indigenously-developed missiles.

    Another key feature of INS Aridhaman is its powerful reactor. The new submarine's reactor is said to be more powerful than Arihant’s 83 MW pressurised light-water reactor.

    The stronger reactor would allow Aridhaman to boost its speed in an unprecedented manner under the sea.

    The submarine is also fitted with seven-blade propeller, powered by a pressurised water reactor, which allows the vessel to travel at 24 nautical miles per hour under the water.

    On surface, Aridhaman can move at a speed of 12-15 knots.

    Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman is likely to launch the new submarine later this month, and then it will undergo extensive trials before its induction into service, the New India Express reported.

    Since submarines are hard to detect, they enable a country to retain a second-strike capability in case of a first-nuclear strike.

    “By virtue of its stealth and attendant survivability of second-strike capability, a nuclear submarine is particularly suited for nuclear deterrence,” the government noted in a 2009 report.

    With the launch of the home-made submarines, India has joined elite group of five other countries - the permanent members of the UN Security Council – which operate indigenously-built nuclear vessels.
    http://zeenews.india.com/india/indi...ub-loaded-with-advanced-features-2042853.html
     
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  13. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Hellfire @PARIKRAMA does a submarine base at rambilli really exist or just a fanboy rumor? What would be the point of building a submarine base in channel backwaters when the whole point is to make entry and exit of submarines undetectable
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yeah, it's in Ramballi. It's called INS Varsha.

    It's underground.
     
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  15. Ramdas2

    Ramdas2 IDF NewBie

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    @PARIKRAMA: your earlier post said that the K-5 is also 4 MIRV @500 kg. A slide presentation by Dr. Saraswat at IITB some years ago also indicated an unnamed SLBM with this configuration. Maybe the 3 ton+ payload i,e 6 @ 500 kg and 10 @ 350 kg are both K-6/A-6 capabilities.

    Do'nt we require 3 specialized tracking ships before any MIRV testing can begin ?
     

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