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Arjun MBT News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Indian_Idol, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    DCB - Ditch cum Bundh ... a system of Canal followed by a high defensive earthen 'wall' which has pillboxes and bunkers providing excellent protection from anything parabolic or not 'line of sight' and anything less than a 1000 lb dumb bomb wont even make a dent on it.

    The canal is given water from feeder canals or rivers directly.

    Opposite Punjab - parallel canal system in Pakistani Punjab. With inter-se gap of 3-5 kms ... breaching the 1st canal is bad, heavy casualties likely, crossing and regrouping for second canal exposes us to an excellent kill zone as highly concentrated forces will be available for Pakistan to write off in 3-5 kms space.

    This is best case scenario. Now demolition of bridges by retreating border guard units of PA/Rangers in case of an IA offensive in this area, will require heavy bridge laying equipment.

    That takes time - a precious commodity.

    even if some bridges are left intact, next issue is culverts ....
     
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  2. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    what the hell dude, you can't ask for EVERYTHING and then expect it to be 55 T . Someone is seriously damaging the specs.
     
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  3. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Two points I want to put forward:
    1. Suppose If there is draught in this area ( by grace of God:mrgreen: ) at that time

    (And how about a heavy flood before that)

    2. Suppose war is unavoidable as Pakistan has attacked India in a)JK and b) Punjab as a planner what will you do?
     
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  4. IndiranChandiran

    IndiranChandiran BANNED BANNED

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    Pardon my ignorance .But won't air assaults using PGM's to sanitize the front line precede ground operations ? Further aren't CAS likely to play a decisive role when the tanks role on towards building a bridgehead on these DCB's?

    This isn't exactly 1971 or even 1965.Further , how do you reconcile what Shiv Aroor writes with what Prasun Sengupta has to say about the induction of Arjun Mk II?@Hellfire
     
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  5. nair

    nair Die hard Romeo Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    I was told by @seiko....:)
     
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  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    That is exactly what happens when a moron starts publishing OLD NEWS as new. You will recall that 3 threads ago, this is what I has posted:

    This should be interesting: International Seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles Enabling Tech 2027 on March 02, 2017, FICCI, Federation House, Tansen Marg, New Delhi

    Now, for those who attended this seminar, everything would have become crystal-clear. The IA's DG-MF himself stated most of what I had subsequently written about the definitive Arjun Mk.2 & the involvement of various private-sector & public-sector OEMs. Now, if the 'desi' journalists either don't attend such seminars or don't talk to the concerned officials during the customary tea-breaks & instead proceed to gobble up all the free snacks & refreshments, then who is to be blamed for spreading falsehoods???

    Furthermore, during both DEFEXPO 2016 & at Aero India 2017, BEML confirmed that the Arjun BLT & Arjun ARRV will be procured & their definitive scale-model designs were displayed. Thirdly, in the Fenruary 2018 issue of FORCE, Dr S Christopher himself had stated on-the-record that a 7- or 8-tonne weight reduction of Arjun Mk.1A is very much possible from a technological & engineering standpoint. Lastly, for those who bother to read GoI gazettes, it is clearly written there that the IA is committed to no less than 6 Regiments of Arjun MBTs--2 of Arjun Mk.1, 2 of Arjun Mk.1A & 2 of Arjun Mk.2.

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3545138702780178046&postID=1184060229454931987
     
  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    For what it's worth I trust PKS over Shiv Aroor.

    Modern MBTs are getting heavier, the IA's unjustifiable fixation on weight reduction has decreased in recent times as they appreciate additional capabilities= extra weight.
     
  8. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    the wrangling to kill the desi projects has started even before Jaitley has stepped into the office
     
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  9. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    I will put troops on their western front. :)

    I have the lift capacity, I have the offshore capacity and I have the force projection and force bearing capacity.

    I also have the logistics capacity.;)
     
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  10. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    I want a scramjet aircraft for myself ... or Air Force 1 and all paid by GOI .. I will keep flying and never land.:)

    On topic:

    Short answers.

    1. Arjun was finalised in an acceptable configuration only by 2006. By then, T-90s were 7 years into into production and counting. Too late in the day.

    2. The government tried to ram it down IA's throat. Notwithstanding the fact that it takes approximately a 10 year timeframe to induct a weapon system and in that duration a new variant has to be fielded too, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd line of spares, along with reserves had to be established. Please remember this was an era wherein the IA has been told to fight a war at very short notice. Which military planner will start stocking for war with a new weapon system when the commonality of spares between T-72 and T-90s would cut our stocking time to hardly 10%?

    3. Not to mention the 50 odd percent of foreign imported equipment which has to be similarly stocked and reserves for the same be built, especially when US was supporting Pakistan (still) and is never a reliable partner for IA's comfort?

    4. Now which logic still dictates a tank which our own infrastructure can not take across? It is a joke to assume that only during war will the tanks move How will we train crew when whole armoured divisions can not cross our towns and cities without major rejig of infrastructure? It shall be hilarious to assume that in a country where a basic can not be produced or be procured, we will change the infrastructure for defence!!!!!

    I can list on and on ....:(
     
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  11. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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  12. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    The weapon to be used against a target has to be cost effective and/or worth the cost to achieve the desired result. There is no use using a weapon like a missile in a line of sight fire to eliminate a bunker when a good machine gun firer can put 100s of rounds through it and effectively allow an infantryman to creep in close to toss a grenade for coup de grace!!

    The cost of a few hundreds of rounds and a good M-36 throw is not even a couple of percentage as opposed to an ATGM.

    Now this you can extrapolate to 100s of embedded bunkers over the ground level and having an overhead protection ranging from 20-40 feet, with Steel Reinforced and Concretised bunkers meant to survive aerial and artillery hits. Cost + logistics do not work out.

    AF will be busy trying to establish air superiority/dominance. They will not be available for CAS.

    In such a scenario, a tank is a mobile artillery system. The fire solution can be accurately deadly.

    Now imagine this tank can not cross the canal to come in range as the pontoon bridge has to be laid as the culvert/bridge is not able to take the weight !!!!

    I am not going to comment on either of the two ...... decade back I have joined issues with the them and Ajai Shukla .....

    I am sure they know better than me :)
     
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  13. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    this is so true... and such a sad state of affairs!!
     
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  14. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Among all three forces Army seems most confused and lost when it comes to future planning.
    Is their any planning and procurement body who plans future strategy or its just on demand basis? Because its looks like so.

    In Most of the wars they caught ill prepared and ill equipped. It even cost us a possible gain during 65 war( they didn't evrn knew how much ammo they had:sad:)

    Even today a lot of purchase occur via emergency basis.
    Same is the case for towed and SP artillery,IFVs,

    In last 20 years they are not able to procure a damn assault rifle, the saga of which is beyond pathetic. They behave like post menopausal lady with hormonal outbursts.

    PS: No offence to Army but its beyond pathetic not to able to decide which damn rifle and tank they want in 25-30 years)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  15. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think the project is overall a success. Three areas it has plentiful research inputs:
    a) Gun- good thing we began with a rifled bore, smooth bore is easier. That along with gyro stabilized platform means that we will be able to create just about any gun system the FMBT requires. It has already fired missiles.
    b) Armor- Kanchan has proved it's mettle
    c) Engine, we need to speed up. If we get the HPP 1500 project completed then we can build any cat of tank, also supply to ancillary weapon systems (BMP etc.)

    delayed but has created one hell of a base to work with.
     
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