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Arjun MBT News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Indian_Idol, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Spares is totally different problem, you cant attach all things to say Arjun is the problem. IA till now unable to even establish workshops for Arjun, and every time a major issue occur like engine they have to send it Avadi

    So, that is fault of DRDO? That IA unable to stockpile enough spares for Arjun?

    That will be next generation Arjun. And NG-Arjun wont become available until 2030-2035, so what army do in meantime? Buy more T-90?


    Only those which are upgraded under CIA standard.

    And as for Pakistani, no Type 59 tank use ERA.
     
  2. The Lockean

    The Lockean 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I have merely stated facts to give an overall perspective from Day 1.

    If you ask me to give a counter narrative of Arjun being the rational choice (I can do that too), I will be hard put to defend it only on the timeline of 2020 plan. We do not have the resources to match up large scale deployment of this tank.

    What the issue has been, and here I have egged it on, I confess am guilty of the part, is that Arjun developed into a worthwhile platform late in the day ... about the same time frame that you have quoted.

    It will remain a dead case for induction in present form. I did, earlier, post that technology as developed from it, should be used for FMBT program. Multiple platforms can be made, be it SPG, AARVs, BLT, ICVs etc, with due modification and tweaking. The standardisation of equipment to be variably deployable in either deserts or mountain arose from the lessons of OPERATION CHEQUERBOARD. We, as a nation, are not 'rich enough' to be able to afford things in a short span of time.

    I stand by that.
     
  3. The Lockean

    The Lockean 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    No.

    The weight got added due to structural re-design to fit the German Engine, when the indigenous engine failed to perform in trials in 1995-96.

    And it was not by the figure of 12 tons either.

    I posted this portion earlier.

    Please go through the summation on 784. Problem occurs on dissecting and posting.
     
  4. The Lockean

    The Lockean 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    In short, who has assembled, and I repeat assembled a tank after 33 years of trying to make one?

    What use is a tank which has 60% imported component? If the spares can not be made available?

    Is DRDO's work to just assemble? Whose task is to ensure 1st line, 2nd line and 3rd line maintenance and repair ecosystem? Hint: Not the army's, but OEMs
     
  5. The Lockean

    The Lockean 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    anyways, am off. Post in. will reply when back on.

    Ciao

    and my apologies once again to @vstol jockey and @kaku
     
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  6. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Not my data, but here is T-90 weight, if it include all system that intend to for a Modern Tank

    http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2011/09/t-90am-mbt-officially-unveilled-at.html
     
  7. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    So, that is fault of OEM? Where Indian Army unable to establish workshops and unable to buy spares?

    Even if that meant to buy from foreign OEMs?
     
  8. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    What you want needs a common nation organisation to deal with the objective, requirement, strategic, economics, r&d, and capability organisation such as DARPA. Army will always want a spares depot and MRO facility from the supplier close to the operation area and in abundance, for which the supplier have to invest for such. The supplier will want the orders or atleast the gaurantee order, for which it could plan for the future MRO and spares depot.

    ARJUN TANK VS T-90 TANK , MAIN BATTLE TANK




    No other country which has such a product would ever want to depend on foreign imports. Even if an indigenous product is only 50% as good as a foreign imported product, it should be supported and over a period it will improve.
     
  9. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    And as for number of years, even if it took 33 years so what.

    MBT-70 R&D started in 1960, and M1A1 only got induction in 1979. It took 19 years for a superpower with Germany to build a Main Battle Tank.

    How you expecting for a developing country like India had done same task within 7 years?
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I don't have links right now, but my numbers are legit.

    Arjun's gun has a max pressure of 800MPa and a safe pressure of 612MPa. The T-90's gun that we got after 2000 was inducted in 1992 by the Russians. It has a safe pressure of 650MPa.

    The L-55 on the Leopard is an incomparable beast. Its safe pressure is 760MPa.
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It took so long bcoz IA changed its QRs many times as posted in that long post by you and finally, the reqt for sights also kept changing.
    The spares management is the responsibility of individual service and this problem of spares has been faced by even T-90 tanks. Arjun is neither a sole case nor an example. It is of the system in place which is responsible for it. You posted a link about only 25% fleet being serviceable. But that also stated that all spares have now been contracted and the fleet will return to full service.
    If you read the most recent articles, you will realise that majority of equipment which was being imported is now being made in India. A Bangalore based company is supplying the FCS upgrade package for T-72 tanks and also for T-90s.
    When we compare Arjun with tanks of the world, what we forget is that it is our first attempt and that too with an aim to leap frog technologies which took over 100yrs to master for even those countries from whom we are importing tanks. Such a project of National importance and national pride must be given 100% encouragement, support and backing. Alas what happened was just the reverse of it.
    I just checked on Google, yes Google an found that every four member crew tank of the world is 63 tons or higher in weight and Arjun MK2 matches them or out scores them in nearly every department. I really do not know why IA is making such an issue about its weight. Mk2 will finally come at 63 tons. This has been accepted by IA.
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    One of the biggest advantage of MBT Arjun MK2 over any of the T-series tanks and also over many other contemporary tanks is its ability of network centric warfare. Every tank in a formation is connected to each other and to its command post in real time with full data exchange across platforms. One tank can pass the target co-ordinates to other to engage a target which is not even in direct LOS of the firing tank.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    After WW2, the concept of medium, heavy tank etc died. It was replaced by the Main Battle Tank. The T-90 and Arjun are both Main Battle Tanks regardless of the weight difference.

    The last medium tanks were Shermans, Panzers, even the T-55.

    Advances in engines, suspension, composite armour etc gave birth to the MBT. An MBT is basically a tank that has the firepower and armour protection of a heavy tank while retaining the mobility of a medium tank. The concept of medium, heavy and super-heavy tanks are obsolete, been obsolete since the late 50s. These tanks no longer exist.

    Today, there are only two types of tanks. The MBT and the light tank.

    Read this wiki page.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_battle_tank

    Here's a small snippet:
    An increasing variety of anti-tank weapons and the perceived threat of a nuclear war prioritized the need for additional armour. The additional armour prompted the design of even more powerful guns.[4] The main battle tank thus took on the role the British had once called the "universal tank", exemplified by the Centurion, filling almost all battlefield roles. Typical main battle tanks were as well armed as any other vehicle on the battlefield, highly mobile, and well armoured. Yet they were cheap enough to be built in large numbers. The first Soviet main battle tank was the T-64[5] (the T-54/55 and T-62 were considered "medium" tanks)[6] and the first American nomenclature-designated MBT was the M60 Patton.

    So if you want to continue using the term 'medium tank' and you want to call the T-90 a medium tank, then even the Arjun is a medium tank. Both belong to the same class. Similarly, the Leopard, Challenger, Abrams etc will become medium tanks as well. The weight of a tank no longer matters in such a classification. All these tanks are Main Battle Tanks.
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The Lahat failed on the Arjun Mk1. They are working on the Mk2 for this capability now.
     
  15. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    CVRDE Invites Bids for Development and supply of 1500 hp Engine to power Arjun Mk II
    Published April 17, 2017
    SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

    [​IMG]



    Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) India’s premier establishment forArmoured vechicles in India has Invited Bids for Development and supply of 1500 hp Engine .

    As per Tender documents which idrw.org has gone through invited interested bidders to submit their proposals before 30 May 2017 and the Bid Opening Date will be 01-Jun-2017. Technical requirements for supply of 1500 hp Engine most probably to be used on Arjun Mk II are as below.

    Specification for 1500 hp Engine

    Engine Type: 12 Cylinder, 4-stroke, V-90 configuration, Turbocharged, Intercooled, DI, liquid cooled Diesel Engine

    Swept Volume: 25 dm3 (minimum)
    Rated Power: 1100 kW as per ISO 1585 (w/o fan)
    a) Performance at 55 C ambient temperature at sea level: No power reduction allowed
    b) Performance at 1000m altitude: No power reduction allowed
    c) Performance at 5000m altitude: Engine should be able to operate up to 5000m altitude safely. Minimum power reduction is permissible at this altitude.

    Torque backup (min) : 18% at 60%-65% of rated engine speed
    Maximum allowed rated speed: 2800 rpm
    Power at 50% rated speed (min) : 610 kW
    Power at idling speed (min): 140 kW
    SFC at peak torque speed : 210 g/kW.hr (max)
    Continuous over speed: 110% of rated speed
    Instantaneous over speed: 125% of rated speed

    Engine Dimensions: Engine with all its constituents will have the following dimensions:
    Length: 1570 mm
    Width: 1025 mm
    Height: 1115 mm
     

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