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Beyond FGFA: Can India look at others for Stealth fighter Partnerships?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by layman, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Personally I would prefer 2 ways.

    1. Combine AMCA with a Pak Fa procurement, instead of going to FGFA!
    That means we commit to buy a certain number of Pak Fa, if Russia in whatever form commits themselfs to help us with AMCA. For example, Mikoyan could help us in design and navalising the fighter, we they could provide us with 3D TVC, which all are crucial parts of AMCA.

    2. Combine AMCA with a follow Rafale procurement!
    We order the 5 missing squads from the MMRCA tender, let Reliance produce them under Dassault guidance and in return Dassault has to commit themselfs to be a partner in the AMCA development, preferably based on the Rafale M.

    In both cases we don't just form basic JV that are only meant to deal with offsets, but gain from proper parnerships at least from the vendors, if not also from their countries (Russia and France sooner or later will need naval stealth fighters to project power).

    Developing a naval variety first, is also easier than navalise a fighter later. Another lesson we "should" habe learned from LCA/NLCA.
     
    layman likes this.
  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Sancho'ji Just posted India, Russia make progress toward Ka-226T helicopter production

    Anyways

    Current 5th Generation Fighters in Production or Development.

    1. F35 (US) - No Go.
    2. Pak-Fa (Russia) - Co production with India (Limbo).
    3. Advanced Mig-35 (Russia) - Announced to be partnering with UAE. (in Deveopment)
    4. Shenyang J-31 (China) - Adversary and veracity of 5th Gen in Question.
    5. Mitsubishi ATD-X (Japan) - Under Development.
    6. Kai KF-X (South Korea) - Partnered with Indonesia.
    7. Chengdu J-20 (China) - Adversary.
    8. F-22 Raptor (US) - Exclusive (No Questions).

    Future Jets

    Boeing F/A-XX
    [​IMG]
    Gurmman F-X
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  3. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Very True,

    Option 2: Is Effective and makes lot of sense. And Naval variety is also available.

    Option 1: Pak-Fa has not been inducted in Numbers in Russia due reasons India should take concerns about. And It might be delayed to 2022 to 25. Mikoyan have already teamed up with UAE to produce Advance Mig-35.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Maybe, but even a Pak Fa with limitations is a stealth fighter and would give us a credible advantage over our enemies. Getting it fast is actually more worth than fixing every issue that we have with FGFA requirements.

    Doesn't have to be Mig, can still be Suchoi, the point is only, that we don't fight with them for FGFA anymore, but include them right away into AMCA. That gets us Pak Fa fast and AMCA faster than we currently plan.
     
  5. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    Why not India develop a 5th Generation fighter by Indians?I am a Chinese,we are forbidden to buy high-tech products from Western World since 1989,the sanction made us knew that We can not be a great country just rely on the purchase.Now we have J-20 stealth fighter,type 055 destroyer,We can produce SSBN and other high-tech weapons all by ourselfs.India likes to be a great country,PM Modi looks like a outstanding leader.Does India can develop a 5th Generation Fighter is governed by Indians' determination,China has an old saying"自力更生", come on India!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    From my point of view, the problem is that India try to get the result at low cost. Develop as cheap as possible, buy weapon as cheap as possible, buy ToT as part of weapon deal to get good deal etc... But a real development of technology is not cheap, it takes time and money. If you don't make the effort by yourself you don't get all aspects of the technology.
     
  7. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    Yes of course.India has such a good relationship with the westernworld,hence India can buy everything from them,on one hand it's a chance to know about the latest technology,on the other hand it will be a big pressure on “made in India”.Any way,India should fully use high-tech from abroad and develop itself.
     
  8. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

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    Buying everything from the west has it's own dangers. Strategic technologies are better home grown. It is better to be self sufficient. I believe in the Chinese way of indiginizing everything as soon as possible.

    In my nation this did not happen because of the Congress party which is a corrupt party and didn't care about national interests. But now things have changed and they have been kicked ot of power. So you'll see more focus on indigenous products.
     
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  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    France tries to be independent and favors countries that want to be independent too.
     
  10. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    Yes,PM Modi did outstanding jobs,In Chinese forums,some Chinese call Modi as India's Deng Xiaoping.You can google Deng Xiaoping if you don't know him.
     
  11. IndiranChandiran

    IndiranChandiran Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Modi has long way to go before he can get anyway close to Deng , who was in a class of his own .

    If Mao is the architect of the political unity of the PRC , Deng is the architect of its political economy .
     
  12. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    All
    All right,you seem to know something about China.
     
  13. IndiranChandiran

    IndiranChandiran Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Not much .Trying to gather as much info as I can .
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    First of all, trying to buy a product as cheap as possible is nothing unusual, that's just business. A buyer tries to get the lowest cost, a seller the highest.

    The key here is, that India today has access to these techs and capabilities and that from several different markets. So India has the choice to do it alone, to buy it from a certain country, to team up for specific projects and not to forget is in the position to ask for techs too! The Indian market today is simply too important to be missed out and we can set the guidelines!
    When you see the difference to the 1980s for example, where India had to take whatever western countries were ready to supply, you will understand what major change we are seeing today and it would be silly not to take advantage of it.

    The problem only comes, when we push forward to fast and for the wrong reasons, but if we use the access we have and aim on constant development of our capabilities, we will do fine as we can see in the space and naval developments, the helicopter side is so far the biggest success story in aviation and we see more and more privat industry players using the access to foreign techs as well, which improves Indias capabilities by far.

    And hopefully we will use this access for AMCA too.
     
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  15. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

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    Mao, Sun Yat Sen, Zhou Enlai, Deng Xiaoping, Xi Jingping, Li Keqiang, Hua Chunying are well known figures in India.

    Chinese premiers/leaders post 1990s are known among anyone who takes an interest in Chinese progress here.
     

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