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Biggest military deal: Six subs for Rs 50,000 crore

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Osiris, Jul 11, 2010.

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  1. Osiris

    Osiris Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    NEW DELHI: If you thought the Rs 42,000 crore project to procure 126 multi-role fighters for the IAF was the "mother of all defence deals", think again. The stage is now being set for an even bigger project—this one worth over Rs 50,000 crore for six new-generation submarines for the Indian Navy.

    The Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister A K Antony, has finally decided that three of the six submarines will be constructed at Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai and one at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam, with the help of a foreign collaborator.

    "The other two submarines will either be imported from the foreign vendor directly or constructed at a private shipyard in India. Fresh estimates show each of these six diesel-electric submarines will cost almost Rs 8,500 crore," a source said.

    Under the programme—called Project-75 India (P-75I)—apart from stealth, land-attack capability and the ability to incorporate futuristic technologies, all the six new submarines will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems to boost their operational capabilities.

    Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. With AIP systems, they can stay submerged for much longer periods, narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which can operate underwater for virtually unlimited periods.

    The selection of the foreign collaborator for P-75I will, of course, take time because a RFP (request for proposal) will first have to be issued to submarine manufacturers like Rosoboronexport (Russian), DCNS/Armaris (French), HDW (German) and Navantia (Spain). Shortlisting and detailed technical and commercial negotiations will follow, before the actual contract can be inked.

    Navy has reasons to be worried. By 2015 or so, it will be left with just half of its present fleet of 15 ageing diesel-electric submarines—10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and one Foxtrot. Moreover, it has been hit hard by the almost three-year delay in the ongoing Project-75 for six French Scorpene submarines at MDL, under which the vessels were to roll out one per year from 2012 onwards, with price escalation pushing the total cost beyond Rs 20,000 crore, as was first reported by TOI.

    For P-75I, the second line of submarines, the navy was keen on a private domestic shipyard to tie-up with the foreign vendor since it felt MDL was already "overloaded" with orders and quick delivery schedules were "critical".

    But the DAC has decided otherwise, holding that the infrastructure and capabilities acquired by MDL in the Scorpene project could not be allowed to go waste. "Let’s hope thing go smoothly now, and instead of 10 years, the navy gets its first submarine under P-75I in six to seven years," an official said.

    Submarines can be game-changers in any conflict. And if they are armed with nuclear-tipped missiles, they provide the most effective strategic deterrent available around the world at this point of time. The US and Russia, after strategic arms reduction pacts, in fact, plan to retain over 60% of their nuclear weapons in the shape of SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles) fitted on nuclear-powered submarines called "boomers", or SSBNs.

    Though India does not have nuclear submarines and SLBM capabilities at present to complete its "nuclear triad", it hopes to move forward by inducting the Akula-II class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia in October this year, and then the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant by early-2012.

    Pakistan, incidentally, already has its first Mesma AIP-equipped submarine, PNS Hamza, the third of the French Agosta-90B submarines it has inducted since 1999. It is now looking to induct three advanced Type-214 German submarines with AIP. China, in turn, has 62 submarines, with 10 of them being nuclear-propelled.

    Biggest military deal: Six subs for Rs 50,000 crore - India - The Times of India
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
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  2. tariqkhan18

    tariqkhan18 Major Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Understanding that the budget is no problem for the Indian Navy. Why does it not take the root to procure and induct nuclear submarines. As the article suggests that the Chinese already operate 10 nuclear submarines whereas Indian subs are on lease (from what i know).
     
  3. SpArK

    SpArK SorCeroR Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Damn expensive!!!!!
     
  4. Osiris

    Osiris Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    So the contenders are Amur class (Russia),Merlin class (France),U-214 (Germany),S-80 (Spain)
     
  5. Naren1987

    Naren1987 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Which country produces the best Submarines?
     
  6. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Germany it is.
     
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  7. SpArK

    SpArK SorCeroR Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Any idea of how much Germany negotiated for U-214 for Pakistan??/
     
  8. Osiris

    Osiris Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    3 Subs for ~$1.2 billion (2008)
     
  9. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Actually not. The guys at the other forum don't know what they are talking about. They're a little weak at mathematics. They peg each sub at $3 billion, which is wrong.

    Rs 50,000 crores = $10 billion.

    6 subs = $10 billion

    1 sub = $1.66 billion.

    Each sub at the end would cost us $1.66 billion, but these costs include infrastructure, maintenance, spares, tech etc. These costs include the development costs.

    Recently Brazil purchased 4 enlarged Scorpene submarines for US$ 10 billion. That's $2.5 billion per submarine. It included much deeper tech transfer.

    India might be going in for such tech transfer, and it is also a possibility that this order might not be for existing subs but a new sub which will be custom made for India, like F16IN, Gripen IN, Mig-35, etc. That's because Pakistan is already negotiating for U-214 subs, and these are supposed to be one of the finest subs available. We can't go for subs that are less capable than Pak's subs. We need better subs than them and that is why I believe that this tender might have more than what appears.
     
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  10. prototype

    prototype Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    well we r also on the same route ,i think 3 arihant class ssbn and 2 akula class ssn r enough,what we lack is cruise missile subs,but our navy is currently not focused on China,they r not a blue water navy and do not have a force projection capability but the string of pearls will change that situation,still submarines with AIP is enough for Indian navy to keep its formidable control in the IOR or at least in the Indian waterways SSCN will also b added into the Indian arsenal in the coming yrs
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  11. gowthamraj

    gowthamraj Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Whatever the benifit, but it hilorious to spend 11 billion


    Russian subs and germans are just 280million per piece.


    Damn expensive:cry:
     
  12. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    which subs are you talking about?
     
  13. Osiris

    Osiris Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    one Amur class subs cost 1billion $ so not 280 million per piece
     
  14. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes, even the Scorpene costs $500 million, U214 costs $450 million.

    The better subs like the Astute class cost 1.3 billion pounds. Convert that to dollar and it equals to $2 billion per submarine. That is after all the experience and already present infrastructure the Britishers have. The R&D is already there, the weapons and sensors already built.

    For a country like India, the same sub would have cost $3.5-4 billion to build.
     
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  15. Osiris

    Osiris Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    BrahMos on Amur-class Submarine

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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