Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Bill seeks to reserve seats for Gilgit, PoK residents

Discussion in 'Defence Analysis' started by PARIKRAMA, Apr 17, 2017.

?

Should the Bill seeking to reserve 5 seats for Gilgit and POK be passed in the parliament?

  1. Yes

    91.7%
  2. No

    8.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,024
    Likes Received:
    3,042
    Country Flag:
    United States
    yes very Valid point.

    The moment Buffer Zone as Eco Free Zone is created... There will a lot of changes in their structure of reactions which is basically fingering now will change completely.
    Basically it will change the mindset of people to know the growth and Govt. cant keep fooling them anymore with Anti-India crap.

    Issue is when you give voice to the people in such polarized state of Pak, it so easy to topple them completely than other solutions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    Sam_, SrNair, Hellfire and 1 other person like this.
  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    4,766
    Country Flag:
    India
    But it will shit scare Pakistani Army, people, govt. and Establishment on the whole.:biggthumpup:
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    8,051
    Country Flag:
    India
    Suppose we do go ahead and debate in parliament and say we do pass this bill.

    How will we implement it?
    Will we say host leaders from these states in India?
    Will we give them passport, Visa and a aadhar card saying they are Indian?
    Do we have the will power to go through the whole process?
    What will be our stand on China infra passing through ?

    Conversely,

    If we do shoot down the bill and show there is no consensus on POK and Gilgit part.
    What will this show as a posture?
    Will it show that divided house means India is not clear about those places?
    Will that show that political class is clear about the actual J&K map over the old whole J&K map?

    Or all this is just symbolism? Symbolism to irritate? Nothing else?


    @Joe Shearer sir would love your views bcz this topic deserves your unemotional view.

    @Hellfire @Levina @kaku @nair @Nilgiri @Rain Man @Vyom @MilSpec @BlackOpsIndia @Lion of Rajputana @Grevion @The Lockean and all others

    @vstol jockey
    Tagging your attention too..

    @layman need your views too mate

    @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar 001 @Himanshu Pandey @Marqueur
     
    SrNair, Nilgiri, The Lockean and 3 others like this.
  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    4,766
    Country Flag:
    India
    Pakistan owes its existence to this idiotic PEACE LOBBY in INDIA. Had we had Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel as our first PM instead of that peaceful NUT Nehru the entire map of India would have been different with no Pakistan in neighborhood and believe me we would have been having Tibet as buffer zone between China and India.

    Sardar Patel Cautioned that peaceful nut Nehru about China's intention but this idiot ignored him and gave that slogan "HINDI-CHINI BHAI BHAI"- MY FOOT.

    Offensive - defence is the best policy hit HARD when you get chance and then talk as much as opponent wants.
     
  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,024
    Likes Received:
    3,042
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Well Bill is not going to make much headway anywhere unless it is followed up with actions (implementation)
    1. Implementation : First step give voice to the people, representation of their people need to be established. They need some kind of identity to bring them closer.

    2. Hosting : There are people who from POK residing outside PoK who are fighting for that cause give them voice and representation.

    3. Identity : Provide Stapled Visas for access to Eco. Free Zones so that they can work and mingle with Indian Counterparts.

    4. Power to Do : What matter is Will of the Indian Political establishments to follow through or they have written it off and Jus want to use it as deterrent card. If India wants it can do.

    5. Chinese Checker : CPEC will be clearly nullified if India establishes Free Eco Zones. As for Chinese CPEC will only help them not the native people ever. So CPEC will be dumped completely in longer run.

    No Consensus : It means India is not serious on PoK they jus want to use it as Deterrent Card. Which means India has written of PoK completely in long run.

    Posture : No different what Chinese are now, Use and Mis-Use, but that is not what India is.

    Division : Clarity Nope, it only means traitors need to be shot point blank. Only if they consider PoK as part of India if not then no point in this Rhetoric.

    Political Mindset : Yep it will clearly show political mindset that they have accept as what it is and willing to move on which is not most of India wants. I mean majority. However they sugar coat it they wont be spared from those majority.

    If India doesnt follow up then it is jus a Symbolism. Nothing more.
     
    Sam_, nair, Hellfire and 1 other person like this.
  6. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    819
    It seems that your view on the subject can be expressed in two words,"Why not?"

    As far as Article 370 is concerned, dilution by ignoring it, or circumventing it, is no legal measure at all.

    Putting it in your terms, "Why have a constitution at all? Let the shakha decide!"
     
    SrNair and Hellfire like this.
  7. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    819
    And we are supposed to accept that as a rational response by a major power?
     
  8. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    819
    As may be expected, most of the intransigents are either the original religion driven segment, or the recent Mirpuri and Potohari immigrants. Much of the damage has been to the original Shia segments; they have been outnumbered gradually, and driven back further and further.

    It is important to distinguish between the Potohari and the Mirpuri. Most Pakistanis who bob up in international fora calling themselves Kashmiri, including Nawaz Sharif, are Mirpuris: an amalgam of Punjabi immigrants and immigrants from the Peshawar area, with pretensions to being Pashtun.
     
    Sam_, SrNair, PARIKRAMA and 2 others like this.
  9. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    819
    Really?

    You are referring to the same Sardar Patel who was willing to exchange Kashmir for Hyderabad?

    And you are also privy to details that show that the Chinese Army that fought the UN - including US and British troops - to a standstill in Korea would be a pushover in Tibet?

    Fascinating. Please could you elaborate?
     
    SrNair and Hellfire like this.
  10. IndiranChandiran

    IndiranChandiran Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    795
    Country Flag:
    India
    I did add a condition - if..


    That entirely depends on what perspective you hold.Do you agree that there have been dilutions in Article 370 to begin with ? What then are your responses to those dilutions ?

    Ah! The age old trope.If a person doesn't agree with your stand , brand him a bhakt or sanghi and dismiss his views , but be very polite and erudite about it.
     
    Sam_ likes this.
  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Country Flag:
    India

    Something like that can be done. However, the nation has to be prepared for a war, that is still some way off. We are not in a position yet.
     
  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Country Flag:
    India
    Illogical. How did you deduce this one?
     
  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Country Flag:
    India

    We went over this earlier too. There can never be a closure of peace as an option. Please remember that.
     
    SrNair and Joe Shearer like this.
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Country Flag:
    India

    You might want to revisit that statement.

    Records show that VB Patel was not even interested in getting J&K into India.
     
    SrNair, Bregs and Joe Shearer like this.
  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Country Flag:
    India
    The point that precludes such a happening is the recent Naga Accord ratified by Modi Government. It has pretty much given equal measures of autonomy even to the Nagas. How many undertakings would you want to renege from?

    Conversely, let us add a twist here.

    @Joe Shearer @layman

    While Article 370 was a provision guaranteed by GoI as an element of acceptance of the Accession of J&K to Union of India (the same being ratified in 1957) what if a different perspective is adopted?

    Treaty or an undertaking of a political nature, by it's very nature, is bipartisan. It does impose conditions on the parties entering into an understanding.

    The cycle of violence and the mass support to the same, creates a condition, wherein one party stands in violation of the undertaking as earlier.

    So, would it not make absolute political sense (and here it is realpolitik) that the inherent nature of the undertaking has changed, the understanding has been violated, hence the terms do not remain binding on the nation too?

    So, in that case, should India also not revisit it's own undertaking, seeing that the other end of the treaty is not being adhered to?
     

Share This Page