Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Brexit the chance for a united EU military?

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by Sancho, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,706
    Likes Received:
    2,996
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-30-08-34-25

    FINLAND, SWEDEN JOIN BRITISH-LED RAPID ACTION MILITARY FORCE

    HELSINKI (AP) -- Sweden and Finland have joined a British-led military rapid reaction force that can either operate alone or jointly with the United Nations, NATO or the European Union.

    The two non-NATO members joined the Joint Expeditionary Force on Friday when Sweden's Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist and his Finnish counterpart Jussi Niinisto signed a deal in Stockholm in the presence of British Defense Secretary Michael Fallon, who called it "a force of friends."

    The unit can consist of up to 10,000 troops from Sweden, Finland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. It can be used in combat, deterrence or humanitarian support.

    In recent years, Finns and Swedes have strengthened their military cooperation with NATO and bilaterally with London and Washington, mainly due to neighboring Russia's behavior in the Baltic region.

    [​IMG]
     
    Sancho likes this.
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-germany-defence-idUSKBN19Y1FJ?il=0

    If true, this is AWESOME!!! :yahoo:
     
    Agent_47 likes this.
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,961
    Likes Received:
    1,496
    Country Flag:
    France
    It's a reuters news... Also seen on french newspaper.
    A manner to kill a deutsch purchase of F35.
    But between a political annonce and a true and financed programm there is a big gap.
    And what about Franco english FCAS ?
    the next future will be interesting.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    http://www.firstpost.com/world/fran...elop-new-generation-fighter-jets-3809851.html
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Joint artillery and A2G missiles are on the list now too.
     
  6. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,706
    Likes Received:
    2,996
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
  7. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    23
    Country Flag:
    United States
    USN submarines have a mission requirement for long distance and long duration. The IN operates more regionally. Some USN requirements are overkill for the IN. Same thing for aircraft carriers. With the advances in AIP plants that's probably a better direction for the IN to take.

    India doesn't bring much to the *development* table: materials? reactors? sensors? weapons? Can India provide something in advance of what is already being developed? Honestly the only thing is money.

    And yes, the US does see India as a valuable potential ally and is supporting policies favorable to it. There's a limit to how far that goes though.

    It's possible, though I have doubts that China can continue the same growth it's had over the past 25 to 30 years. There are structural and social issues likely to come into play in at least the medium future.

    And India has much more serious issues with China than the US does. We have no territorial disputes nor is China funding a rival right next door.
     
  8. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    23
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Russia wants to regain great power status. India is useful since it is a foil for China who is a direct threat to Siberia and the far East. But if Russia could gain security by throwing India to the wolves, it would. Despite the rhetoric, Russia knows the US and NATO really isn't a threat.
     
  9. Locke

    Locke FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    23
    Country Flag:
    United States
    France was a founding member of NATO and joined for one reason: the USSR. It left the integrated military structure under de Gaulle because:

    1. He felt the US had too much control. As the country with the strongest military that was to be expected
    2. He felt the US and the UK had a special relationship that excluded France. Which was true.
    3. An independent defense policy wouldn't automatically draw France into a war with the USSR.

    However, France still remained a member and always supported the organization.

    If all US allies were subordinates the US leadership would be much happier. That isn't the case though. With India the hope is that there can mutual support with certain overlapping concerns.
     
    BON PLAN and Blackjay like this.
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,198
    Likes Received:
    6,319
    The F-22 is less stealthy and has inferior electronics, but it's better than the F-35 due to kinematics. Aircraft kinematics is extremely important because of missile kinematics.

    Although it's true that kinematics is less important, it doesn't apply to the F-35. It simply doesn't have enough.

    There is no reason for the Russians to throw us to the wolves. They have proven that time and time again since the 70s. We do not have conflicting interests.

    France would have stayed in NATO if it wasn't for unrestricted US influence. Now they have rejoined NATO and proposed Common Defence for the sake of diluting the American hold over Europe.

    Basically, my point is the US wants allies to be subordinate to them. The same with the US asking for Indian troops in Afghanistan. One of the reasons that was rejected is because the Americans said they wanted operational control over US troops. Naturally we will opt out.

    Now if that is reciprocated in some other way, then it is possible. Like if India says that IOR is our backyard, so any USN ships here should be under India's control, then the relationship becomes more realistic. But getting to this point is either very, very far away, or may never happen.
     
    Blackjay likes this.
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,198
    Likes Received:
    6,319
    No, if the US has long distance, long duration requirements, then it's the same for India. The purpose of building SSNs is to get long distance, long duration capability. AIP does that at a very small scale.

    In exchange, the US gets security. If it wasn't for that, then there is no reason for the US to be making policies favourable to India.

    Yep, but we have already gotten pretty much everything we need. The only things left are the NSG and UNSC seats, but it doesn't look like we will get either without forced reforms.

    The Chinese don't need the same level of growth.

    Two things will happen now. First, the Chinese will continue to have at least 4% growth for many decades on average. That's more than the US will. Second, the Chinese currency will start appreciating and that will lead to increased international purchasing power for the Chinese. Appreciating currency also contributes to growth in GDP.

    India only has a border dispute with China. It's not as serious as people believe. The Chinese want India to be their economic ally.

    China is funding many rivals. Not just Pakistan. They are a bigger military threat to actual US allies, not India. Like North Korea.
     
  12. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Country Flag:
    India
    Wrong ; You have not understood the Chinese Mentality

    They believe in Lackeys ; Stooges and Puppets
     
  13. Ironhide

    Ironhide IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    16
    Country Flag:
    India
    The border dispute IS very serious and the Chinese will readily and happily make India their economic ally as long as India gives them Arunachal Pradesh.
     
    Shekhar Singh likes this.
  14. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    832
    Country Flag:
    India
    Nope they ll next ask for Sikkim then whole North East .
     
    Shekhar Singh and Blackjay like this.
  15. Ironhide

    Ironhide IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    16
    Country Flag:
    India
    True that, It is hilarious to even think about Chinese as Indian allies in any field, they are leveraging their economic advantages by trading with India and shutting down whatever industries they can. Many small scale industries have vanished in India and now even the smartphone market of India is being dominated by all Chinese Govt. backed companies, they can open their companies and sell their products in India without any problem but ask businessman what happens if they want to open their business in China, Even Jaguar and Land Rover had to get into a 50-50 partnership with a Chinese State owned company Called Chery.
     
    Shekhar Singh likes this.

Share This Page