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Brexit the chance for a united EU military?

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by Sancho, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not relevant, since time has changed and the question was about the possible military that Scotland would have. Please stick to topic.
     
  2. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Question you have to ask is, "who would control this army?" That's why we vetoed it. We fundamentally don't trust the leadership of the EU.
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I was on topic, I'm pointing out that Scotland is very unlikely to leave the UK, because far more people voted to remain. The number voting to be in the EU and leave the UK was 1.6m in both referendums, only the turnout changed. Scotland has a 10% deficit even at UK borrowing rates and not paying the full interest on their debt, they couldn't even afford to operate a military. They would probably do like Ireland and rely on the fact that they're next to the UK for defence. Like Irish citizens they would probably be eligible to join the UK armed forces.
     
  4. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Do you remember Maidan 2013-14 in Ukraine where good financed from EU minority made coup? Do you remember pro-EU militants who killed cops and civilians and capture Parliament? Ha! You think it was good for Ukraine, may be it will be good enough for UK. Well payed, trained and armed militants will fight with "Windsor's Tyranny" and EU Media will claim you in using CW in peaceful Edinburg...
    Who saw wind - will harvest storm.
     
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  5. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Do You remember this story:

    and revenge of eurointegrators?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  6. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    They'd be too drunk. Worst you'll get from them is a few bottles thrown on a Friday night.
     
  7. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Pretty good guess indeed!
     
  8. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

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    Denmark, an EU member, opted out of the EU Battle Group concept. Norway, not an EU member, opted into it as part of the Nordic Battle Group alongside Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Ireland.

    In a sign of how seriously Norway takes the NBG, it has just 50 personnel assigned to it, preferring to keep with its commitments to NATO instead, a dynamic I much prefer to an existing or new European-led defence force.

    Capture.JPG

    How would a common European Defence Force play out? Does Norway opt in? Or Denmark opt out? Do smaller nations like Estonia and Latvia continue to pool resources into NATO, providing a paltry force to the NBG, while shirking an EDF? Or do they run a parallel track and split their forces? Where do demilitarized NATO members like Iceland fit in? And what's the incentive to join this proposed force versus retaining a high level of engagement with NATO?

    I've been skeptical from the start. Europe lacks a lot of the heavy and logistic assets NATO has, it lacks integration, it lacks commonality, it lacks a common direction - all of which NATO helps to provide. These take time to enact and propagate. If the Common Security and Defence Policy is any measure of future success, a common European Defence Force is going to be a rocky prospect. The EU BG concept has been a complete failure.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Joint military doesn't mean out of NATO, but to be a stronger part of NATO, by combining capabilities, possibly budgets and industries. It's likely that we see more joint effort's in standardising arms of EU countries. The NG MBT for example, will most likely be a joint project. In terms of Drones Airbus and Saab will likely push ahead. On the naval side French and Italians are forming larger alliances.
    We also see the requirement to replace the NATO AWACS fleet as well as several European tankers. A good chance to go for own A330 AWACS and Tankers, as well as a joint strategic lift capability of the A400M. On the special ops side Germany and France already seem to plan cooperations. But some countries have to lead and Germany has to step up their game.
     
  10. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It would play out same way anything EU always plays out. That is to say a kleptocracy where special interests conspire to take over the defence industries of participant nations. I.e. if Norway joined, then in 20 years time, you'd find all your weapons were made by France, Germany and Italy.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-army-uk-drops-objections-to-eu-military-unit/

    :rolleyes2:
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    https://sputniknews.com/military/201706011054183948-norway-eu-us-divorce/

    Getting the nordic states in line with Germany, France, Italy and Spain will be crucial for a joint defence project and as a strong Base, for other countries to follow. Angela Merkels offensive comes at a crucial time and jointly with the French president, the EU shows confidence and strength.
     
  13. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Angela Merkel's call for Europeans to put their fate in her hands more like.
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Please, just as you leave Europe, don'tmess and go. Full nonsense. I you want to be out than shut up.
     
  15. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I'm just calling it for what it is. The EU is not a trade deal, or anything like it and they need to be open and honest about where they're heading and give people a vote on it, rather than trying to move slowly from trade deal to federal superstate via a thousand treaties (aka death of sovereignty by a thousand paper cuts).

    It's moved from trade deal, to no internal borders, to one currency, to one central bank, one monetary policy, one trading bloc, now going for one army. How long before one government and one state? If you want to be EUish rather than French that's up to you, but others might not, and I think 'leaders' should at least do them the courtesy of asking.

    What happens if this one military decides to buy German planes rather than French ones, or buy most of its equipment from German sources? Perhaps you might not agree with its foreign policy. etc. All big questions that nobody is getting asked.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017

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