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Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tusharm, Apr 13, 2015.

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  1. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    From Rafale to Falcon? Anyway understand that yours is reply for AA
    Btw Airbus maybe wanted to reduce its share in Dassault because it does not see it getting big orders for Defence sector, and for private sector Dassault would be also be competing Airbus products.

    Further if Airbus is selling its stake in Dassault, someone has to buy it, and whoever can buy might be a hindrance to Dassault. Happens al the time.
    France had recently told Dassault that it would be reducing its yearly nos from 9 to 5 per year and that is where the Egyptian order came as godsend for France. Else for building 5 planes a year the line does not become economical
     
  2. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    How are you, long time..
    Want to quote me out of context? Wonder if the guy what he claims to be the German thinking is actually French thinking, since he is French.
     
  3. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I was in Turkey and my internet acces was weak and and sometimes nonexistent. Do you really thinks that Typhoon tr-1 could be better than Rafale F3R? It seems to me amazing.
     
  4. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    HAL lost out on opportunity to assemble 108 Rafales in India and as Defence Minister Parrikar has said the future Rafales will be imported G-G and HAL has been kicked out of the picture.

    HAL already assembles Su-30 MKI and that is not a certificate of its capability.

    Tejas Mk2 will be nowhere near Su30MKI sophistication level and is anyways in the distant future.
    By PMF assembly time (2028~) it does not even matter what HAL is upto.

    Air Marshal Matheshwaran is presently on the HAL board.
    The Tejas does not need to be killed it is a joke and not of any use in 2015 to the IAF or even 3rd world dictatorships.

    Modi and Parrikar were fairly clear on the initial 36. The question now is of delivery timelines. Parrikar has said all 36 within 24 months which seems over-ambitious unless the French more than double production.
     
  5. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Your compatriot gave me his views, and I did extrapolate them for him... When a french guy living in France claims that he knows Germans well that German people want to sell the older version of Typhoon to us and claim that Germans feel thats what India deserve, I feel that its very much a French view of India and Dasault did in a way prove it based on the various comments on HAL. So might be good if you keep your poodle in check first and not claim something he does not know about.
     
  6. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    They're built by the same company, in the same production plant, and largely the same employees. AA quotes an article claiming that the promised buy of 36 Rafale is India single-handedly saving a company that was "struggling to survive", this is a ridiculous claim since most of Dassault's business comes from the civilian sector which is performing well and growing fast. These articles showed that the article AA posted (in his misguided attempt at making something that could perhaps, if you glance at it in the fog, maybe look like a sort of point) was written by an ignoramus who used his own ass as his only source.

    Airbus makes airliners, Dassault makes business jets. There's no competition between them in the civilian sector.

    It's very simple but somehow people are still getting confused by numbers.
    Dassault stated that 11/year was the minimum they could go and keep the line economically viable. (And actually the problem here isn't Dassault themselves but some of their subcontractors.)
    France had originally planned on getting 66 Rafale in the current order, which would represent six years, until 2019 and the next military programming law where a new order could take place; but for budgetary constraints this was reduced to 26.
    So the idea was the first two years, France buys all 11 aircraft. Then the third year France buys 5 aircraft and gets its total of 26. And the remaining 40 are to be sold to export customers. But if they sell less than 11 aircraft in one of the coming years, then France is contractually bound to buy it, which will annoy the French finance ministry but make the French armed forces happy.

    I don't know where you got your "9 per year" number from. And it's not "5 per year" either since it's just for one year. Then it's supposedly 0 per year until 2019, and after that a new batch of Rafale will probably be ordered. After all, the Super Etendards are getting retired in 2016, and the oldest Mirage 2000 are also getting retired, only the 5mk2 should remain after 2020.

    24 (Egypt) + 36 (India) = 60, that's more than 40, so there is room to increase production rate and produce 20 more Rafale before the end of 2017 and make both customers happy. However, the current production run of 106 (26 French + 60 export) will still be scheduled to last until 2019. They're not going to make the 60 export Rafale before 2017 unless more orders come in. The prospects are UAE, Qatar, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Finland.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
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  7. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    do you mean to say tejas is useless??
     
  8. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    the tejas is far far more superior than mig 21 which IAF uses .even with mig21 bison .replacing mig 21 with rafale is utter waste of money. a lot no of tejas will be very effective squarden and a combat deadly flying machine.
     
  9. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    people like it or not tejas is going to save IAF depleting squad.
     
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  10. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    • Test Pilots have compared LCA to Mig 21 and this what they have to say:

    "A Mig 21 is a very old platform, with limited flying time and onboard missiles. LCA, a fourth generation aircraft, is three times as powerful and can carry modern precision missiles for both air to air and air to ground missions. LCA also has ultramodern quadruplex digital fly by wire controls, a glass cockpit, sensors, multi mode radar and relaxed static stability. In addition, it can fly supersonic at all altitudes."
    How well LCA Tejas will perform if deployed in Siachen which is world's highest battlefield? - Quora
     
  11. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    But how is the mig 21 range compare to Tejas ?
     
  12. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Keep calm I didn't say all Germans think like that. Only the one that don't like rafale and that try to propose a scenario to offer you a discount for EFT.
    For the ability of Hal to build a modern fighter like Rafal the info come from your government that wanted a full guarantee from dassault for Hal production. Finally he also confirm the issue with local production by hal yesterday by ordering more French made rafale that initially planned. So please don't blame French for that.
     
  13. Zeus_@21

    Zeus_@21 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Hard fact!
     
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  14. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    With new and more powerful GE engine available next year the Tejas might work out. Theres are lot of systems that India can purchase from Israel, and the French or even the USA. Russia was doing the same thing with the Mig 35 until the sanctions. A United Nation of parts and systems brings its own problems, no guarantee its going to work out, Hal and India could screw up a wet dream.

    GE Engine For LCA Mark II To Be Certified By End 2015
    Source : Amreen Khan ~ Dated : Tuesday, February 17, 2015 @ 01:11 PM
    Views : 1391 A- A A+
    [​IMG]
    GE Engine For LCA Mark II To Be Certified By End 2015
    GE Aviation is expecting certification of the F414 engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mark II fighter by this year-end, Mr Nalin Jain, CEO of GE Transportation and Aviation told Defenseworld.net.
    GE F414 engine contract which was signed in 2011, features improved Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC), single Crystal blade design, single engine safety features and other electronic advances.
    The LCA Mk II will feature advanced equipment, such as the active electronic scanned array (AESA) radar, upgraded avionics and electronic warfare suite, while also being capable of carrying a larger payload than the Mk I LCA.
    GE’s F404 engine already powers LCA Tejas Mark I fighter.
    Nalin Jain briefed on GE aviation’s contracts with the Indian government. “We had collaborated with Aeronautic Development Agency (ADA) for the demonstration program of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, started back in 1985.”
    GE Aviation is also involved with the Indian Navy programs. To date, it has delivered 11 LM2500 gas turbines to HAL for the navy, which powers INS Satpura, INS Sahyadri and INS Shivalik stealth frigates as well as INS Vikrant aircraft carrier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The F414 Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) will generate up to 20% more thrust by increasing fan airflow with the EDE hardware configuration. The F414 engine powers the U.S. Navy's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler aircraft. More than 1,200 F414 engines totaling two million flight hours power more than 500 aircraft in the fleet. The F414 engine is rated at 22,000 pounds (98 kN) thrust and is in the 9:1 thrust-to-weight ratio class.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
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