China AWACS System Seeks to Flush Out US Stealth Fighters

Discussion in 'China' started by Antonius, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. Antonius
    Offline

    Antonius FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    68
    China AWACS System Seeks to Flush Out US Stealth Fighters​



    China’s new airborne early warning and control systems (AWACS) are far more sophisticated than current US systems, according to a Washington-based think tank.

    The Chinese-developed phased array radar technology embodied in the PLA Air Force’s KJ-2000 and KJ-200 AWACS systems is already a full generation ahead of the US E-3C and E-2C AWACS systems, according to a report by the Washington-based Jamestown Foundation.

    Phased array radars — also known as active electronically-scanned arrays (AESAs) — allow ships and aircraft to broadcast powerful radar signals while remaining stealthy because the signals are broadcast in a variety of wavelengths, making them hard to distinguish from background noise.

    China’s radar technology has advanced to the point that it is only the fourth nation to export its AWACS systems, after the US, Sweden and Israel. It was the successful efforts by the US in 2000 in pressurong Israel and Russia not to export AWACs technology to China that prompted Beijing to embark on an intensive effort to develop advanced homegrown radar technology.

    Only when the KJ-2000 entered service in 2005 did China posses the capability to coordinate its air force in large-scale air battles while simultaneously tracking many enemy aircraft and ships. However, China was limited by the number of large Russian IL-76 planes it was able to deploy as the platform for KJ-2000s after Russia substantially raised their price tag despite an earlier contract.

    The issue was eventually resolved in 2011 with an agreement to let them be built inside China. Meanwhile, China began using its smaller homegrown Shaanxi Y-8 cargo planes as the platforms for a more basic AWACS system dubbed the KJ-200. At the moment China is believed to have 4 KJ-2000s and an unknown number of KJ-200s.

    Beijing is already at work on more advanced AWACS with the capability to detect the US F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters, according to a CCTV interview with Wang Xiaomo, chief designer of KJ-2000. Wang is known as “the father of China’s radar systems.”

    Superior radar systems allow missiles to be fired preemptively to shoot down enemy aircraft before they can respond in kind. However, the miniscule radar signatures of US stealth jets — comparable to that of a bumblebee — make early detection by even advanced systems highly unreliable. Stealth planes have so-many radar-baffling features that the pilot’s helmet is often the most radar-visible object. F-22 pilots are encased in a cockpit designed to eliminate the radar signatures of their helmets.


    [​IMG]
    China's new airborne early warning and control systems (AWACS) are advanced enough to flush out US F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters, according to a Washington-based think tank.

    Asian American: China AWACS System Seeks to Flush Out US Stealth Fighters Goldsea
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    2 people like this.
  2. Averageamerican
    Offline

    Averageamerican Lt. General ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,526
    Likes Received:
    1,599
    2 people like this.
  3. Antonius
    Offline

    Antonius FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    68
    What the planes to do with AWACS capability?

    AWACS is a system, plane is the platform/airframe. In case of KJ-2000 the platform plane is Il-76, but the AWACS is Chinese. So we are talking about AWACS technology here not the plane airframe, especially passenger planes of Boeing/Airbus.

    As for the platform, there is another choice: Y-9, and the upcoming Y-20 which is almost like globemaster. China is more advanced in the military plane than civil passenger plane, but she will launch C919 rivalling Boeing 737 in 2015.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    2 people like this.
  4. Antonius
    Offline

    Antonius FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    68
    China next-gen early warning aircraft will be the 'best in the world:' People's Daily


    [​IMG]

    China's next generation early warning aircraft will be able to surpass all of its global competitors, according to Wang Xiaomo, vice president of the China Academy of Electronics and Information Technology, in an interview with the party-run People's Daily.

    With the advent of the US airborne early warning and control system during the Gulf War of 1991, the PLA Air Force realized that early aircrafts with similar capabilities as the US E-2 and E-3 models are crucial in any potential conflict over the Taiwan Strait, East China Sea and South China Sea.

    Wang spent his entire life mounting advanced radars on PLA aircraft. In total, he has developed three airborne radars for China. During an exercise in northwestern China in 2012, two fighters from the PLA Air Force received orders for the first time from an early warning aircraft.

    Wang's life was tough as an young engineer living in the mountain regions, he said. During this period in his life — coinciding with the internal struggle of the Cultural Revolution — China also faced external pressure from the Soviet Union and the United States. Wang was happy to have served his nation, even though the living conditions were extremely poor at that time, he said.

    Things began to change after the collapse of the Soviet Union. China could no longer rely solely on ground radar systems to defend its territory from foreign invaders, Wang said. China has 9.6 million square kilometers of land and 3 million square kilometers of water, making the expanse coverable only by early warning aircraft.

    Wang has personally trained 18 experts in developing China's early warning aircraft. While most of the aircraft and control systems are designed for the PLA Air Force and Navy, many of them can be exported to nations friendly towards China, Wang said.

    Although China is still unable to challenge the US in this field, Wang said that his "China Dream" is to develop a radar for the best early warning aircraft in the world.

    China next-gen early warning aircraft 'best in the world:' People's Daily?Politics?News?WantChinaTimes.com
    1 person likes this.
  5. layman
    Offline

    layman Field Marshal Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    20,705
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Aaand any info how are gonna track the Stealth Fighters of the west other than making blatant statements...

    Sure they are trying to ascertain the control and testing their Awacs with ADIZ, but enforcements is clearly a issue.
    1 person likes this.
  6. Martian
    Offline

    Martian SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    197
    Just a minor correction to the article in the first post. In my September 27, 2012 post (see below), I counted six Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS.

    ----------

    Scenario: J-10A Vigorous Dragon engages Five French Rafales

    [​IMG]
    J-10A carries four PL-12 AAMs (air-to-air missiles) that fly at Mach 4. (See China vs. Japan Military Match-Ups)

    A Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS registers the presence of five French Rafales on its AESA radar at over 200km away. There is a single J-10A Vigorous Dragon nearby. Carrying four PL-12 AAMs, the single J-10A engages the five French Rafales at 70km.

    The J-10A is beyond the range of the French Rafales' 50km (or 60km) range MICA missiles. The J-10A calmly fires all four PL-12s and shoots down four French Rafales. The J-10A banks and flies towards the nearest Chinese air base. The lone surviving Rafale gives chase, but its slow 1,800+ km top speed means the J-10A is receding into the distance.

    Another J-10A is tasked to intercept the fifth and lone surviving Rafale. The Rafale pilot quickly flees to avoid coming into the 70 to 100km range of the J-10A's PL-12 missile.

    ----------

    China's PL-12D ramjet BVRAAM

    China has its own Meteor program.

    Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

    "Several improved versions have been under development at 607 Institute, including PL-12B with improved guidance system, PL-12C with foldable tailfins for internal carriage by the 4th generation fighters (e.g. J-20) and PL-12D with a belly air inlet and a ramjet motor for long range attack similar to PL-21 (see below)."

    ----------

    China's KJ-2000 AWACS has a maximum range of 400km

    China's KJ-2000 AWACS has a maximum range of 400km. In this thread, I have kindly said only "200km away." The actual KJ-2000 detection range is double that figure.

    Kongjing-2000 (KJ-2000)

    "The KJ-2000 is the latest Chinese early warning aircraft, comprised of domestically designed electronics and radar installed on a modified Ilyushin IL-76 airframe. The KJ-2000 system is based on the Russian A-50 airframe, and was said to use an indigenous phased array radar. It was reported that the system can track 60-100 aerial targets simultaneously at 400km away."

    ----------

    Armed Rafale probably has RCS of 2 to 3m2

    Only a "clean" Rafale has a sub-unit sq. meter RCS and probably only from the frontal aspect (e.g. not side aspect).

    A "dirty" armed Rafale with missiles, bombs, or drop tanks will have approximately 2 to 3m2 RCS.

    ----------

    China builds more KJ-2000s and KJ-200s to ensure air battle advantage

    New KJ-2000 AWACS with yellow primer

    [​IMG]
    New Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS (NATO reporting name: Mainring)

    [​IMG]
    Close-up of new KJ-2000 AWACS

    KJ-2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Design

    The current KJ-2000 AWACS in Chinese service is equipped with a domestic AESA (active electronically scanned array),[4] also known as active phased array, radar. The radar was designed by the Research Institute of Electronic Technology (also more commonly known as the 14th Institute) at Nanjing, and it utilizes the experience gained from the 14th Institute's earlier indigenously developed Type H/LJG-346 SAPARS (Shipborne Active Phased Array Radar System) that was completed in 1998. The same Type H/LJG-346 SAPARS was also the predecessor of the active phased array radar system equipping the PLAN Lanzhou class destroyers. The radar is arranged in the same way as that of the Beriev A-50I.[4]"

    ----------

    This is at least the sixth KJ-2000 AWACS in the fleet.


    Reference: "Five were estimated in service as of 2008." (see http://china.usc.edu/App_Images/military conflict 2008.pdf).

    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]

    ----------

    Chinese Y-8W / KJ-200 Balanced Beam AEW&C ~ Chinese Military Review

    Chinese Y-8W / KJ-200 Balanced Beam AEW&C

    [​IMG]
    New build Chinese Y-8W / KJ-200 Balanced Beam airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) undergoing pre-induction flight tests.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  7. Martian
    Offline

    Martian SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    197
    KJ-2000 uses L-band radar. It is well known that stealth fighters are only stealthy in X-band and upper S-band.

    ----------

    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-06.html
    "Assessing the Tikhomirov NIIP L-Band Active Electronically Steered ...
    by C Kopp - ‎2009

    Sep 14, 2009 - Tikhomirov NIIP in Moscow are developing an L-band AESA radar ... as well as the Chinese KJ-2000 and KJ-200 AEW&C/AWACS radars, ..."

    "Abstract

    Tikhomirov NIIP in Moscow are developing an L-band AESA radar system intended for embedding in the leading edges of fighter wings. A demonstrator of the L-band AESA subsystem was publicly displayed at MAKS2009.

    This paper analyses the operational potential of this design, and performs a range of performance estimates based on manufacturer disclosures and known design features.

    The design has clear potential to provide a genuine 'shared multifunction aperture' with applications including:

    Search, track and missile midcourse guidance against low signature aircraft."
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  8. layman
    Offline

    layman Field Marshal Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    20,705
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Country Flag:
    United States
    And Yet US and their Allies keep violating their ADIZ's funny indeed.

    As much as much touted Radar, there is no official confirmation of anything with regards to how they work. SO there is no point in boasting funny scenarios... Let them engage and be successful they we can claim Chinese really do possess the Tech. Else all these Speculation are mere waste of time....
    4 people like this.
  9. Martian
    Offline

    Martian SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    197
    I won't bother answering your question next time. Obviously, I wasted my time.

    You asked how KJ-2000 can detect a stealth fighter. I answered it.

    Instead, you just wanted to rant. Go right ahead and rant some more.
  10. layman
    Offline

    layman Field Marshal Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    20,705
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Very funny for you to call this rant, Rather you are quoting unconfirmed reports and informations, which has no meaning for me....

    SO i dont give a damn about your reply. Theoretically even Iran boast they have these and that, but there is nothing.

    SO quote with confirmed official reports...


    :rofl: Very funny indeed.
    4 people like this.
  11. Sagar alias Jacky
    Offline

    Sagar alias Jacky ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,221
    Likes Received:
    2,839
    According to some Washington based Chinese 'think tank' ?? :rolleyes2:
    2 people like this.
  12. layman
    Offline

    layman Field Marshal Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    20,705
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Country Flag:
    United States
    The whole stupidity of this thing is SaJ, Unconfirmed reports are can never be taken for granted and another builds up on that for the capabilities... :facepalm:
    1 person likes this.
  13. Soumya
    Offline

    Soumya SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,288
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Funny thing is he is giving ausairpower.net as a source for his claim :rofl:
    1 person likes this.
  14. layman
    Offline

    layman Field Marshal Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    20,705
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Country Flag:
    United States
    :lol: I think you left of the Scenario of 5 Rafales vs J10A.... :rofl:
    1 person likes this.
  15. Soumya
    Offline

    Soumya SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,288
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Oops My bad. I did not read Chinese propaganda ministry report.

    OMG :haha: :rofl: Chinavsjapan.org :rofl:
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page