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China says no to Moscow, Beijing, Delhi trilateral defence ties

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by layman, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    China has turned down a Russian effort to bring defence ministers of India, Russia and China on one platform in Moscow, fuelling speculation in New Delhi that this has been done keeping Pakistan sensitivities in mind. The refusal was officially communicated last week, which was also the time the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh took off despite strong Chinese protests.

    The trilateral meeting was to take place on April 25, a day ahead of the Moscow Conference on International Security. Defence minister Arun Jaitley is scheduled to visit the security meet. Russia was keen that as a strategic outreach the defence ministers of the three countries should do a trilateral to explore an architecture of security cooperation.

    India agreed after examining the proposal in great detail, particularly keeping in mind Russia’s strong ownership of the idea. However, Moscow later conveyed to New Delhi that Beijing has regretted from participating in the initiative. While no specific reason was given, the speculation is that China did not want to signal that it was in anyway trying to undermine its special defence relationship with Pakistan by entering into an arrangement with Russia and India.

    Beijing has so far not conveyed any direct message to India on this subject. The Russian diplomatic rationale flows from the fact that there already exists a RIC (Russia-India-China) forum among the foreign ministers.

    In that context, officials told ET, Russia thought it to be a logical extension in trying to construct a security matrix outside US-led mechanisms.

    India is already part of many US-led strategic trilateral forums. The more robust examples are US-India-Japan and US-India-Australia, which also have proved to be effective avenues for military cooperation. The trilateral with US and Japan includes a regular conversation on China and its impact on maritime security in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea.

    China had lodged a strong diplomatic protest when US at one point had sought to first form a quadrilateral with India, Japan and Australia. India, it may be noted, has been upset with China blocking Indian membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group and literally vetoing efforts at the United Nations to blacklist Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar.

    Source
     
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  2. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Russia and India both have territory disputes with China.

    After the evil CCP government collapse in the next few years, the new Chinese democratic government will never recognize any border treaty signed by the CCP government which can not represent the best interests of the all Chinese people. Any Chinese territory lost in wars will and should be taken back by force when the time is right.
     
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  3. cuibw99

    cuibw99 FULL MEMBER

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    Well, if there really is one day that China can take someplace like 海参崴(what is currently called Vladivostok) back, I believe it is not by a democratic government. It is definitely true that a health democratic government will be the best solution for long term growing, but based on current situation and reality of China, I feel that it is hard to come out with a real health democratic government.
     
  4. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The thumb rule that applied in Indian politics is now evidently seen applicable in international politics as well. Who so ever forges enmity with modi goes mad and takes politically wrong decision and marginalizes himself or themselves. Congress reduced itself to Zero by forging enmity with Modi and this turned out to be true for many other political parties. This applied to Pakistan and it regressed itself to a very low lever by being enemy to modi. Now china is doing that and you can see how china is degrading itself. China is unable to act as per its international stature. It is acting like a rogue state which has a target of being anti India even at the cost of its national interest. Modi always remains happy and do his work. He never react but always take preempt action and others react. Downfall of china has begun from its status and its journey of being the super power. It is loosing its status and it is making itself an evil power always in a search of a chance to destabilize world by helping the rogue nations and create instability in the world. It will slowly reduce itself to a level where it will be considered as rogue nation.
     
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  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Chinese are wary of Indian politics and its clout of power in International arena.
    They will try all they can to subdue and subvert any attention India could get, but it is working opposite as any news they blocking is hitting the Mainstream Media all over the world, Media powerhouses are in Favor of India anyways.
    Chinese need a new game plan as their old game plan seems to be not working anymore. And Chinese will come up with something. But they clearly underestimated Mr. Modi's clout.
     
  6. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Look how the things have changed in past 3 years. Chinese had a plan to encircle India with their string of pearl strategy. Now the situation has taken U turn and chinese string of pearl is demolished by I Modi's Act east policy and India is active in in South china sea. India can do a lot to china which US can not do. India has potential to substitute anything of chinese with Indian including economic development Model and democracy. China can at the most provoke stupid Pakistanis against India but can not do anything else. Modi diplomacy has changed and reversed many equations. CHina has nothing to gain by forging enmity towards Modi and India. If china continues with its current anti India policy of it will be marginalized slowly and weaken its economic mussels and shall not be in a position to pursue any aggressive policy with massive economic backing and loose its influence in countries like Pakistan and south Africa as well.
     
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  7. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    SOP & OBOR are works in progress and yes they had not thought India would act as such to delay and dismantle their initiative.

    India can do lot of stuff which US doesn't want to get its hand dirty,
    1. propagation of democracy is deal killer for Chinese.
    2. Tibet is a deal killer for China.
    3. IOR denial is a deal killer for China.
    etc etc...

    India's fingering in SCS is creating them headache. But only if India can arm Vietnam to its teeth then Chinese will feel the pressure of as they are arming Pak. India is lagging behind in that sector as recent ONGC/OVL had moved from the allotted sector of discovery of Oil in Vietnam waters due to the dispute with Chinese claims, while Chinese are merrily exploiting it.

    It will take a war if anyone want to weaken Chinese Economic clout as they have been growing at galloping pace for 2 decades + and still at +6%.
    Chinese will not loose Pak as Pak's has nowhere to go, Only if US has to tow the lines you can expect Pak dumping China in a wink. Else nothing much would happen in that sector.
    Africa they are loosing to India but Indian investments are still lacking backbone and funding support from the govt.

    Well a lot of things analyze in today world of geopolitics.

    Know your enemy better than knowing your friend.
     
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  8. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Xi jingping , the current Chinese president will take the absolute power in the 19th CCP congress of this year. Believe it or not, he has the destiny and mission to end the evil CCP dictatorship in China, and it is possible to become the first democratic elected president of New China.

    Many Chinese have been brainwashed by the CCP propaganda for long time and lost the proper and objective analyzing capability.
     
  9. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Based on comprehensive national strength valuation, USA is the only one ruling superpower and China is the rising superpower in the world.

    USA has many successful models as well as many shortcomings in its democracy, and Chinese should learn from them after China turning to democracy.
     
  10. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    After China become a free and democratic country, China will be the real homeland for all the Chinese. And many Chinese scientists working in overseas will come back to mainland and work for the new China which can be the ruling superpower in the world.

    This is the real dream for all Chinese.
     
  11. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Officially Russia and China have no territorial disputes.
    Unofficial wants are just unofficial wants. China have no chances for retaking Vladivostok by military force, as we have a lack of chances to retake Bejing undamaged by military force.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  12. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Ha! After China will became free and democratic state there will be hanger, chaos, and, may be - civil war.
    There are joke about Ukranian, who had catch "golden fish" (magic creation, that can fulfill of desires) and asked her to send him on the good Maidan, after what human life had become better. As fish send him in far far east country on the Tiananmen square in the Jun, 4 of 1989.
     
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  13. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Don't need to worry the Chinese democracy, there will be Chinese way to deal with all the minorities in China.

    As for the Russia, majority Chinese consider that it is the enemy forever for China, except for the CCP and its followers. When China become the ruling superpower in the world, that is the time to take back the territory occupied by Russia. And this is the matter of time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  14. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Oh, my dear friend. With all my respect to Chinese History, how many times China was captured by "Northern Barbarians"? It is a geographical determinism - you can not send big army to capture Moscow, but we have no seriouse problems to capture ruins of Beijing.
    Another question is understanding of opponent.

    Do you remember words of Sun Tzu?
    "If you know both yourself and enemy - you can fight many times without risk of lose. If you know yourself, but don't know enemy - one time you will win, another - lose. If you don't know yourself and don't know enemy - you will lose all times".
    Russians know both Russians and Chines. Chines don't know their own forces, and know nothing about other "barbarians".

    Third moment is a traditional Chinese mentality:
    "好铁不打钉 好汉不当兵" Sorry for my poor Chines.
    It can be translated in English as "You should not use good iron for making nails, and you should not make soldiers from good men".

    Thats why China have no chances in a big war.
     
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  15. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Well, you don't understand Chinese civilization but only skin and hair.

    When China become the ruling superpower, it must have many superior technologies against the other countries including Russia. By that time, China can send a army of robotics and UAVs to crush Russia without any loss of human lives. Certainly, there will be a high energy shield cover the Chinese territory against any nuclear missiles attack. It sounds a scifi fiction, but it can happen in the future as far as China develops such kind of technologies.

    By the way, you can google the latest Chinese development in AI , robotics and supercomputer.
     

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