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Chinese Aircraft Carriers: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by Hembo, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Only in power projection terms and exerting China's "presence" in Pacific.

    It's not possible for PLAN to take on the Ford-class CBGs anytime in forseeable future in an actual combat engagement. If they
    do, they will lose.
     
  2. Senior_Miguel

    Senior_Miguel REGISTERED

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    Isn't that, why they developed DF-21D missile?
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    There are certain limitations to be observed when talking of launching a ballistic missile on a moving target several hundred/thousand kms away on the open seas. A quote from an older article written by Prasun K. Sengupta, a respected online defence analyst here :-



    You can personally contact him here: TRISHUL

    Just post a comment in his latest running thread about your doubts/queries and he'll turn up to respond sooner or later.

    Secondly, with the advent of laser-based defences on US warships, conventional strikes with exo-atmospheric missiles will be neutralized much prior to them actually acquiring their targets.

    In order to potentially get past these type of directed-energy defences, you need to
    give as least warning time as possible and be able to strike extremely fast once detected. i.e. a low-altitude approach using a SCRAMJET-equipped hypersonic projectile.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  4. Senior_Miguel

    Senior_Miguel REGISTERED

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    Thanks, I'll contact him! BTW, you mentioned a laser-based defences on USN ships, but now all they are testing is Laser Weapon System (LaWS), which could work good against small threats like RHIBs or uavs, but not against exo-atmospheric missiles.
     
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  5. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They are still being developed. It depends on the power of the diodes and the intensity of the beam. There are already some airborne lasers
    that can shoot down ballistic missiles (Boeing YAL-1). Ship-based systems have access to higher power reserves, hence can be developed into
    a true ballistic missile shield.

    But the drawback is that these type of DEWs take some time to "charge" their diodes to adequate intensity. That's why warning time/window of
    opportunity is all crucial. If you adopt low-altitude approaches, most modern radars can't detect you at more than 50-60km at the horizon. If you're
    hypersonic, you'll hit the target before the defences are prepped & concentrate their beam on your missile.
     
  6. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    2 fifth generation jets for AC - J 20 or 31/F 60?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    2014 picture of the Chinese Navy (PLAN) aircraft carrier strike group. The Liaoning, CV-16 is pictured, with two Type 052C guided-missile destroyers in the foreground, three Type 054A guided-missile frigates, and a Type 093 nuclear attack submarine in the lead. The eight fighters shown are land based and are not off of the carrier, but they are similar to the J-15 aircraft that will be housed on the carrier. To date no more than three or four J-15 strike aircraft have been seen on the carrier and they have been test aircraft.
     
  8. Sree

    Sree Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    t means what... ... ????

    Still they can't deploy a AC fully functional with the allowed fighter units ?????

    All of their carrier based fighters are as test aircraft's ????

    As for china we can't believe anything until we seen them by any foreign media/.... because they always want to claim/present that they can do what ever the other nations are doing for decades(ex.US,UK,France,India,Japan etc......) :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
     
  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Chinese Engines Travel A Trail Of Tears
    by James Dunnigan
    October 7, 2014

    China continues to have problems with its locally produced military jet engines. The biggest problems are with the WS-10 series, which was designed and produced in China and the government has been pressuring the aircraft manufacturers to use Chinese made engines like this instead of Russian imports. This has not been working out as the government wants. For example, the new Chinese carrier fighter, the J-15, is supposed to have a more powerful Chinese made engine so that it can carry more weight using the ski jump deck on the new Chinese carrier. The ski jump is a cheaper and less complex take off alternative to the steam catapult. One disadvantage of the ski jump deck is that it cannot launch aircraft as heavy as a catapult can. China has developed a more powerful version of their WS-10 engine (the WS-10H) for the J-15 but has only been seen in two J-15s. Most J-15s are still using Russian AL-31Fs. China keeps details of its WS-10 development secret, but they cannot hide which of their aircraft are using the WS-10 and which the Russian made AL-31s that the WS-10 is based on and is supposed to replace. It is obvious that not a lot of WS-10s are being installed and that indicates the quality control and reliability problems of the WS-10 persist despite government denials.
    The first WS-10s began showing up in J-11s back in 2004. In 2010 China revealed that it was replacing the Russian engines in its J-10 fighter, installing Chinese made WS-10A in place of the Russian made AL-31FN. Shortly after that announcement China ordered another 123 AL-31FNs, to be delivered by 2012. More AL-31s have been ordered but at the same time more Chinese fighters were being seen with WS-10s. Despite that the demand for AL-31s, based on the number of modern jet fighters China wants to build, is exceeding the Russian engine building capacity.
    The Chinese claim the WS-10A is superior to the AL-31F, even though the WS-10A copied a lot of the Russian technology. The Chinese say they have improved on that. For example, as delivered from Russia, the original AL-31 was good for 900 hours of operation. The Chinese claim their engineers figured out how to tweak the design of the engine so that it would last for 1,500 hours. Russia has since improved their basic AL-31 lifetime to 1,500 hours, and, most recently, 2,000 hours. When pressed, the Chinese claim that they simply cannot produce enough WS-10As for all the new airframes they are building. But the reality is that the WS-10As have some serious, unpredictable and persistent reliability problems that limit the number of reliable (enough for regular use) engines available.
    Back in 2011 China believed it would be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines by 2016, which implied that Chinese engine manufacturers still had a way to go. Now the most any Chinese will admit to is that there will be no need for Russian engines by the end of the decade, maybe. Meanwhile China continues to import AL-31s and the RD-93 (a version of the MiG-29's RD-33) for the JF-17 (an F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan) from Russia. These engines are expensive, with the RD-33 going for about $3 million each and the AL-31 for about a third more.
    Since the 1990s Chinese engineers have managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31 engine. This is part of a program that has also developed the WS-13, to replace the RD-93 as well. While the Chinese have been able to build engines that are durable, they are still having problems with reliability. Apparently it is still worth buying more Russian engines because the Chinese models are out of action too often, which keeps the jets grounded for repairs or, worst of all, an engine change.
    China has long copied foreign technology, not always successfully. But since the 1990s China has poured much money into developing a jet engine manufacturing capability. The Chinese encountered many of the same problems the Russians did in the beginning. Developing the necessary engine design and construction skills is difficult. But China has several advantages. First, they knew of the mistakes the Russians had made, and so were able to avoid many of them. Then there was the fact that China had better access to Western manufacturing technology (both legally and illegally). Finally, China was, unlike the Soviets, able to develop their engine manufacturing capabilities in a market economy. This was much more efficient than the command economy that the Soviets were saddled with for seven decades. The Chinese consider all this part of the learning process and they do learn from their mistakes.
    Meanwhile the Chinese can build more Su-27 clones than they can reliable engines for them, and they keep developing more Su-27 variants. The Chinese J-11 jet fighter is an illegal Chinese copy of the Russian Su-27. It all began legally in 1995, when China paid $2.5 billion for the right to build 200 Su-27s. Russia would supply engines and electronics, with China building the other components according to Russian plans and specifications. But after 95 of the Chinese built aircraft were built Russia cancelled the agreement. Russia claimed that China was using the knowledge acquired with this Su-27 program to build their own copy of the Su-27, the J-11. The Chinese claimed that the J-11 was designed and built using only Chinese technology. China also has a stealthy version (J-17) of the Su-27. There is also an aircraft carrier version of the Su-30 (the Su-33, obtained from Ukraine) that is now in service as the J-15. In 2013 J-16s were spotted. This is a two-seat fighter-bomber similar to the American F-15E and nearly identical to the Russian Su-30MKK. China insists these are all Chinese designs that just happen to bear some resemblance to Russian fighters.
     
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  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    China’s Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power — War Is Boring — Medium

    There’s no more of a conspicuous and potent symbol of China’s growing naval power than the aircraft carrier Liaoning.

    But the 53,000-ton, 999-foot-long carrier could be dangerous to her crew and prone to engine failures. If so, that makes the vessel as much of a liability as an asset to Beijing.

    The ex-Soviet carrier once went by the name Varyag until a cash-strapped Ukraine sold the ship to Beijing in 1998. The Chinese navy has since invested considerable resources into modernizing the warship and testing her at sea.

    But on at least one occasion during recent sea trials, Liaoning appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier’s electrical power system. The failure, reported by Chinese media site Sina.com, resulting from a leak in “the machine oven compartment to the water pipes.”

    We’re only able to glimpse at the carrier’s engine problems, as we know very little about what’s inside the ship. This includes even what kind of enginesLiaoning has.

    The Chinese government also doesn’t like to admit to problems with its military hardware. When it does—and that’s never guaranteed—the admissions often come months or years after problems come up.

    During the accident, hot water and steam began “spewing” out of the engine’s oven compartment, Sina.com reported. One cabin became “instantly submerged in water vapor,” the report added.

    The 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov also goes nowherewithout a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway.


    The Chinese navy isn’t going to get rid of Liaoning any time soon. She’s Beijing’s first serviceable carrier and the ship is a valuable resource for naval flight operations. Even if China never sends her into battle, she’s useful for training and learning how carriers work.

    But powerplant problems can also make it so China can do little else. Failures can add costly repairs, shorten the vessel’s lifespan and force her to crawl along the water at slow speeds. Beijing also lacks large overseas naval bases—a necessity if trouble arises while Liaoning sails far from China’s shores.

    If she ever does. Liaoning is more alike to its ex-Soviet cousins than different—confined to home ports and restricted from challenging rivals like India.

    “Since China began to send navy convoys on anti-piracy missions to the Gulf of Aden and the Somali coast in 2008,” military analyst Liu Zhongmin wrote in Global Times in 2010. “The lack of overseas bases has emerged as a major impediment to the Chinese navy’s cruising efficiency.”

    Now add the possibility of engine problems.
     
  11. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    China considers a naval stealth fighter based on Chengdu J-20

    China is likely to complete the construction of its second and third aircraft carriers with the ability to carry J-20 fifth-generation stealth fighters, although a carrier-friendly model may need to be designed first. China is likely to complete the construction of its second and third aircraft carriers with the ability to carry J-20 fifth-generation stealth fighters, although a carrier-friendly model may need to be designed first. China’s domestic aircraft carriers currently designated ‘Type 001A’ will look very similar to the Liaoning, the country’s first aircraft carrier bought from Ukraine and refitted. They are most likely to be equipped with a ski-jump ramp. The displacement of each vessel is expected to be around 70,000 tons, similar to the Liaoning’s maximum displacement of 67,000 tons. ChinaShipbuilding Industry Corporation has already received contracts for the construction of two Type 001A carriers, at a projected cost of 50 billion Yuan (about US$9 billion.) Work on the second aircraft carrier has already started at the Dalian shipyard. This carrier, the first to be designed and built in China, is expected to be commissioned by 2020.

    China considers a naval stealth fighter based on Chengdu J-20 | Defense Update:
     
  12. Anees

    Anees Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    China's Only Aircraft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulties

    Read more: China's Troubled Air Craft Carriers - Business Insider

    Chinese naval soldiers stand guard on China's first aircraft carrier Liaoning, as it travels towards a military base in Sanya, Hainan province.

    China has developed some impressive defense capabilities in recent years. But one of its flagship achievements has had some notable technical problems in recent weeks.

    As Robert Beckhusen explained at War is Boring, the Liaoning, China's sole aircraft carrier, unexpectedly powered down during a sea trial last week. The vessel "appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier’s electrical power system," Beckhusen wrote, citing a Chinese-language media report (which is summarized at Asia Defense News).

    Beckhusen notes these sorts of failures aren't unheard of on Soviet-built carriers of the late 1980s — before it was the Lianoning, China's carrier was called the Varyag, and carriers of its class haven't aged particularly well.

    "The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya—first a Soviet Kiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004 — temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago," Beckhusen recalls, adding that "the 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsovgoes nowhere without a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway."

    The Lianoning's troubles reveal an important tension within China's defense outlook.

    China wants to be a major conventional power. No country goes through the trouble of acquiring a half-operable carrier, or developing simultaneous models of stealth jet, if it doesn't have hopes of becoming one of the globe's leading military powers. Simply pursuing these sorts of projects reveals an undeniable depth of commitment towards keeping pace with the US, which has multiple carrier groups in the Pacific at a given time, and has been developing its own advanced fighter, the troubled F-35, for years.

    But China's current military advantages are actually asymmetrical. In other words, capabilities meant to quickly and expediently close the gap between China and the US without having to build up China's order of battle to identical level, even if that means breaking some broadly-accepted rules of how states should behave.

    So China's military hacks cyber targets throughout the world, and builds weaponry that few other countries would — things like anti-satellite systems, or missiles capable of carrying nearly a dozen nuclear warheads.

    The fact that China even has an aircraft carrier is a reminder that Beijing wants to be a conventional power on par with the US. But the Lianoning's recent problems also show China is still far behind the US as a military power — something that might only make its actions less predictable and more worrisome as Beijing progresses towards super-power status.



    Read more: China's Troubled Air Craft Carriers - Business Insider
     
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  13. AKIIN

    AKIIN 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    China plans nuclear-powered aircraft carriers: US expert
    [​IMG]
    China is developing a large nuclear-powered aircraft carrier similar to the Nimitz-class or Ford-class aircraft carriers of the United States Navy, Associate Professor Andrew S Erickson from the Strategic Research Department at the US Naval War College wrote in his recent article for National Interest magazine.

    Erickson said three models of aircraft carriers displayed at Jinshuai Model Crafts based in Zhanjiang in Guangdong province show what China's future aircraft carriers will look like. Jinshuai Model Crafts is located close to the headquarters of the PLA Navy's South Sea Fleet and the models it makes usually provide reliable and detailed information about the design of China's future warships.

    The first important thing to notice, Erickson wrote, is that the three models give the hull numbers of China's first three domestically built carriers as 17, 18 and 19. The models also show that the design of the PLA Navy's future carriers will be different to its first carrier, the Liaoning, which carries the number CV-16. The carrier was purchased from Ukraine as the hulk of the Soviet-era carrier Varyag and refitted for service. It was commissioned in 2012.

    While the design of the model labeled CV-17 still retains some characteristics of the Liaoning such as its ski-jump deck, the CV-18 and CV-19 are completely different from the Russian-designed light aircraft carrier, according to Erickson. They look much more similar to the Nimitz-class or Ford-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers of the US Navy. Described as the first domestic nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, Erickson said that both vessels are American-style ships with Chinese characteristics.

    Some mistakes were found on the models, however, likely due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the model builder, Erickson said. The position of the CV-18's blast deflectors and catapult are wrong. In an attempt to fill the space, about 70 carrier-based aircraft can be seen on the flight deck of the model. The carrier has six 30 mm single-tube artillery sets, four sets of HHQ-10 point defense missiles, and four sets of laser anti-missile systems.

    Erickson said Shanghai's Changxing island is a promising location for China to construct its own nuclear-powered carriers.

    Defense expert Du Wenlong was quoted as saying that the PLA Navy will need at least three aircraft carriers to use in rotation. While one carrier is on active duty, another can carry out training exercises while the third undergoes maintenance. After three carriers are completed, the Liaoning is more likely to serve as a purely training vessel, the Global Times said.
     
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  14. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    虽然中国已经有了首艘航母辽宁舰,但这远远不能让军迷满意,这么大的国家,怎么能没有核航母呢?当然,要发 展也不是一朝一夕就能完成的。所以,就先设想一下过过瘾吧!图为网友设想的中国海军华清级核航母。该航母满 载排水量高达15万吨,吓人吧!(来源:兔吧 作者鹰之海洋)

    Although China has had Liaoning ship's first aircraft carrier, but it is far from satisfied with military fans make such a big country, how can the nuclear aircraft carrier did not it? Of course, it takes time to develop can be done. So, have fun first imagine it! Pictured users envisioned Chinese naval Huaqing class nuclear aircraft carrier. The aircraft load displacement of up to 150,000 tons, scary! (Source: Eagle Marine rabbit right of the author)

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  15. AKIIN

    AKIIN 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    as they said this design having many problem. and also this carrier is nuclear, so big and costly to build. i think this carrier will not developed fully because for US they take several years to develop ford class from Nimitz(12+) so at this timeline this Chinese carrier needed at list 20+ years to develop and in service insted they go for small.
     

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