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Chinese Aircraft Carriers: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by Hembo, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    Valid points but at the same time I think you and @Sancho have pointed out that China's approach is to copy rather than innovate and this is a double edged sword. The IAC-1 faced specific issues that won't be repeated again (notably the loss of a gearbox in a road traffic accident and issues soucing the specialist steel ). Just like the P-15As took 10 year and the P-15Bs around half that time, any future carrier projects will be executed far swifter thanks to these foundations.


    All I can say is that I hope the GoI/IN doesn'gt throw away CSL's expertise in carrier construction and commits to a least 1 more IAC-1 class in the interim as IAC-2 is still being designed. China is smart enough to take advantadge of economies of scale and commits to large orders, India keeps up this drip drop bespoke approach where limited numbers are ordered on an ad-hoc basis that is highly inefficent and counter productive.
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    China launches first home-built aircraft carrier amid South China Sea tension

    By Michael Martina | BEIJING

    China launched its first domestically built aircraft carrier on Wednesday amid rising tension over North Korea and worries about Beijing's assertiveness in the South China Sea.

    State media has quoted military experts as saying the carrier, China's second and built in the northeastern port of Dalian, is not expected to enter service until 2020, once it has been kitted out and armed.

    Foreign military analysts and Chinese media have for months published satellite images, photographs and news stories about the second carrier's development. China confirmed its existence in late 2015.

    The launch "shows our country's indigenous aircraft carrier design and construction has achieved major step-by-step results", Xinhua news agency said.

    State television showed the carrier, its deck lined in red flags, being pushed by tug boats into its berth.

    Fan Changlong, a vice chairman of China's powerful Central Military Commission, presided over the ceremony, Xinhua said, during which a bottle of champagne was broken on the bow.

    The launch follows China's celebration on Sunday of the 68th birthday of the founding of the Chinese navy, and comes amid renewed tensions between North Korea and the United States over Pyongyang's nuclear and missile programs.

    Little is known about China's aircraft carrier program, which is a state secret.

    [​IMG]

    China's first domestically built aircraft carrier is seen during its launching ceremony in Dalian, Liaoning province, China, April 26, 2017. REUTERS/Stringer


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    But the government has said the new carrier's design draws on experiences from the country's first carrier, the Liaoning, bought second-hand from Ukraine in 1998 and refitted in China.

    The new conventionally powered carrier will be able to operate China's Shenyang J-15 fighter jets.

    Unlike the U.S. navy's longer-range nuclear carriers, both of China's feature Soviet-design ski-jump bows, intended to give fighter jets enough lift to take off from their shorter decks. But they lack the powerful catapult technology for launching aircraft of their U.S. counterparts.




    "NO NEED" TO MATCH THE UNITED STATES


    China's navy has been taking an increasingly prominent role in recent months, with a rising star admiral taking command, its first aircraft carrier sailing around self-ruled Taiwan and new Chinese warships popping up in far-flung places.

    The Liaoning has taken part in military exercises, including in the South China Sea, but is expected to serve more as a training vessel. State media has said the new carrier will be more dedicated to military and humanitarian operations.

    China claims almost all the South China Sea, believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas, through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year, and has been building up military facilities like runways on the islands it controls.

    Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

    Taiwan, claimed by Beijing as its own, has said China is actually building two new aircraft carriers, but China has not officially confirmed the existence of another carrier.

    Chinese state media has quoted experts as saying that the country needs at least six carriers. The United States operates 10 and plans to build two more.

    Major General Chen Zhou, a researcher at the Academy of Military Science, told reporters in March that China would not exceed the United States in carrier groups. "China has no need for this," he said.

    Sam Roggeveen, a senior fellow at the Sydney-based Lowy Institute, said that by the time China had half that number, it could go toe-to-toe with the U.S. navy in the Asia-Pacific.

    "Given that the Americans have global obligations and responsibilities but China doesn't, then effectively by that point they would be evenly matched," Roggeveen said.

    Most experts agree that developing such a force will be a decades-long endeavor but the launch of the second carrier holds a certain prestige value for Beijing, seen by many analysts as keen to eventually erode U.S. military prominence in the region.

    "With two aircraft carriers you could say without much fear of contradiction that China, other than the United States, is the most powerful maritime force in the Asia-Pacific," Roggeveen said.



    (Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Michael Perry and Nick Macfie)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-military-carrier-idUSKBN17S06B
     
    layman, Sancho and Bregs like this.
  3. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ideally 2 IAC, IAC-1 & IAC-2 should have been ordered from the onset itself, this would have given economy of scale as then we would have been bargaining for twice the order and vendors obliging with discounts. Also if we had place order for 2 gear boxes then even if one gear box had been lost in accident we would have another so the first IAC-1 would have not lost that time and when IAC-2 would have required that gearbox we could have procured that when it was to be fitted.

    Also since the ship was made modular all the parts for IAC-2 could have been made once IAC-1 was being assembled and when IAC-1 was floated out for fit out IAC-2 assembling could have started and we would have had IAC-1 completed by now or at max by 2018 with both delivered by 2020. At 1.5X cost we could have got 2 aircraft carriers, which would now require 3X cost for the same.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Nope, because building the same carrier new is a logical move, instead of going from refitting the old carrier directly to a developing and building a new CATOBAR carrier. This way they have a simple but steady learning curve with less risks of failure.

    Refitting first carrier
    => Building the first own carrier, based on the former
    => Take the gained know how and improve it in the next design


    Compare that to our approach

    Refitting assistance on a foreign shipyard
    Building our first own carrier, in a completely different way
    Planing for a larger carrier with completely different layout

    So which way makes more sense?


    We see this jump in our developments quite often, because we don't use what we learned properly and want to jump to the next project already.
     
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  5. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There is a Chinese saying: Want to learn how to run before learning how to walk.

    That is the way the Indian to do the things, therefore, most of the Indian weapon projects are unsuccessful.
     
  6. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The evolution of Chinese Aircraft Carrier from CV-16 to CV-17:

    CV-16 photo

    [​IMG]


    CV-17 photo

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
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  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    There is another saying, "you can copy all you want, you will always be one step behind.

    We don't rename a product and call it homemade. In our dictionary jaguar D3 or Bisons are still foreign.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    True, but then again, China's options are limited as well. If they had the options as India has, they might choose other ways too.
    We simply have to do what we do and use the advantages of foreign partners and consultancies in a smarter way.
     
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  9. cuibw99

    cuibw99 FULL MEMBER

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    This maybe true. So, fortunately, China didn't have other choice. Thanks god not giving China too many options.
     
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  10. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    握个抓,你好,和印度人说这些没有用,他们的精神胜利法真的很厉害啊
     
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  11. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

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    You won round 1, we agree.
     
  12. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

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    So did you visit Taj Mahal and Agra?? Or still waiting for November.
     
  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    English please. Or you take Chinese classes for me. The english translation online makes it sound a crazy statement.
     
  14. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    [QUOTE =“Veeran,post:556196,member:20203”]所以你访问了泰姬陵和阿格拉?还是等待十一月。[/ QUOTE]
    An indian friends gave me a suggest,August is too hot to visit India ,and my wife and another 2 friends will come with me,so we decide to visit India next January,Jaipur is canceled from our plan because we dont have enough time.Taj Mahai and Agra will be visited.
     
  15. km小夫子

    km小夫子 FULL MEMBER

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    I means Indians always keep comparing themselves with China,Chinese people is surprising to see hatred on the Indian side all the time.I read news from TOI and IDF,the news relate to China is Carefully selected by indian media,actually most of that is fake news,I cant find the same new in china's media.fake news bring misunderstanding to us,this is regrettable.
     

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