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Chinese Aircraft Carriers: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by Hembo, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Chinese are about to start an arms race. The Japanese will soon follow. The Americans will try to keep the superiority over the rest of the world, but as it is impossible they will explode in the air as did the USSR.
     
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  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Work under way on China's second aircraft carrier at Dalian yard

    Huge ship and two advanced destroyers being built at Dalian yard says Liaoning party chief, according to reports later deleted from internet.

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    China is reportedly building a second aircraft carrier, estimated to be completed by 2018, on its way to expanding its fleet to four of the massive ships.

    Media reports - later deleted from the internet - stated Liaoning party chief Wang Min told a panel of the provincial people's congress that the second carrier was being built in the city of Dalian. The reports also quoted Wang as saying the port city was building two advanced 052D destroyers.

    Wang told delegates from Dalian yesterday that the shipyard had started building China's second carrier after the first one, Liaoning, was delivered to the navy. The shipyard was responsible for refitting Liaoning, formerly a Ukrainian carrier.

    Wang said construction of the new carrier would take six years and China's navy would eventually have four.

    While the report did not specify the exact completion date, the new carrier is expected to be completed in 2018, based on the delivery date of Liaoning to the navy in September 2012.

    It was the first confirmation by a senior official that China was building a second carrier, as well as the location and the timetable of its construction. The Defence Ministry has been tight-lipped about the progress of the plan.

    The South China Morning Post reported in November that China would build four medium carriers by 2020. A country needs three to four carrier battlegroups for combat capability. The United States, by comparison, has 10 active carriers.

    The carriers are part of China's push to develop a so-called blue water navy at a time when tension is running high with neighbours including Japan and the Philippines. In December, the USS Cowpens had to change course to avoid a near collision with one of the ships in the Liaoning squadron conducting tests in the South China Sea.

    Military experts yesterday were divided about why the report was removed from the internet.

    "I am sure Wang Min did say that in the panel meeting. But it seems that it is not proper for him to make the news public," a senior naval colonel said, requesting anonymity.

    One retired PLA general said: "There is only one reason for such an important piece of news to come out in this way: the central authorities want to keep it low profile."

    Macau-based military expert Wang Dong yesterday said it made sense that Dalian shipyard was responsible for the construction of the new carrier.

    "However, it is worth keeping an eye if Dalian also gets the orders to build type 052D destroyers as they are usually built by Shanghai shipyard. If Dalian is building both, it may exceed their capacity,' he said.

    A spokesman of Defence Ministry yesterday declined to comment when reached by the Sunday Morning Post.

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  3. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    China building second aircraft carrier

    China is building its second aircraft carrier, which is expected to take six years, and the country aims to have at least four such ships, Chinese and Hong Kong media reports said on Sunday.

    After two decades of double-digit increases in the military budget, China's admirals plan to develop a full blue-water navy capable of defending growing economic interests as well as disputed territory in the South and East China Seas.

    The country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning - a Soviet-era ship bought from Ukraine in 1998 and re-fitted in a Chinese shipyard - has long been a symbol of China's naval build-up.

    Successfully operating the 60,000-tonne Liaoning is the first step in what state media and some military experts believe will be the deployment of locally built carriers by 2020.

    In comments carried on Chinese news websites, Wang Min, the Communist Party boss of the northeastern province of Liaoning, where the first carrier is based, said the second carrier was being built in the port city of Dalian.

    Its construction would take about six years, and in future China would have a fleet of at least four carriers, Wang told members of the province's legislature on Saturday, the reports added.

    Dalian is the port where the existing carrier was re-fitted for use by the Chinese navy.

    Some of the reports about the new carrier were apparently latter removed from the Internet, as links to the stories did not work.

    Hong Kong's South China Morning Post, citing unnamed military sources, said the reports may have been removed either because the government wanted the construction to be low profile or because Wang did not have the authority for such an announcement.

    The Defense Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.

    The Liaoning successfully executed more than 100 tests, including those of its combat systems, during drills in the disputed South China Sea last month.

    The exercises off the coast of Hainan Island marked not only the first time China had sent a carrier into the South China Sea but the first time it had maneuvered with the kind of strike group of escort ships U.S. carriers deploy, according to regional military officers and analysts.


    Read more at: China building second aircraft carrier: Reports : China, News - India Today

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    We need 2 more super large nuke ACs to cover the IOR.
     
  4. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    China needs three aircraft carriers, writes naval researcher

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    China should have at least three aircraft carriers to defend its national interests at sea, a mainland naval expert said, adding that criticism overseas of an expansion of the fleet was an overreaction.

    Three carriers would just meet the most basic demands of China's navy, said Li Jie, a researcher at the Naval Military Studies Research Institute.

    "Among three carrier fighting groups, just one would able to carry out operational missions because one would be used for training, while the third would have to undergo maintenance," he said.

    China now has one aircraft carrier, but the Communist Party chief in Liaoning province Wang Min said earlier this month that a second was being built in Dalian . Reports of his comments were later deleted from the internet.

    Li dismissed reports overseas that the PLA would be able to deploy three carriers by 2020, one in the East China Sea and two in the South China Sea.

    "It's impossible for China to complete the construction of three carrier fighting groups by 2020 based on current shipbuilding capabilities and other technical reasons," he said.

    Li said China had two yards capable of building aircraft carriers, at Dalian Shipbuilding Industry and the Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard.

    "Besides the Dalian dockyard which successfully refitted the Soviet-built Liaoning carrier for China, the Shanghai shipyard is also in a position to build an aircraft carrier, too."

    He declined to comment on whether the Dalian yard was building a second carrier.

    Li wrote an article in the state-controlled Global Times this week criticising the United States and India for voicing disquiet about China's aircraft carrier programme.

    "The United States always wants to be the world's largest power. It always overreacts to China's military development," he wrote.

    "Anything China has done, no matter if it is a new generation of stealth fighter or just a refixed training carrier, seems to make Uncle Sam nervous."

    Li said Beijing should be more open about the need for more carriers to ease disquiet among its neighbours and superpowers like the US.

    He said aircraft carriers would continue to be an essential tool in China's defence and that other nations including the US and India were continuing to develop their fleets.

    "The carrier will still have naval supremacy in this and the next century and will be the best weapon in great power's navies," he wrote.

    Meanwhile, two missile destroyers have set off for naval exercises in the South China Sea, the Pacific and the Indian Ocean, the navy's website reported.


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  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    So China Has a New Aircraft Carrier. So What?

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    China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning (PLAN CV-16). Source: Author photo, with credit to Google Earth.

    China has an aircraft carrier -- and it's making a lot of people nervous.


    In fact, depending on whom you believe, China may be well on its way to building a second aircraft carrier. Or a third. Or even a fourth.

    Over the weekend, DefenseNews.com reported that construction of a sister ship to China's Liaoning (PLAN CV-16) carrier has definitely begun. Liaoning Provincial Communist Party Secretary Wang Min told delegates to the 12th Provincial People's Congress last week that China's second aircraft carrier is now under construction in the port city of Dalian. According to the South China Morning Post, China aims to complete the carrier by 2018. With China's military budget having tripled over the past decade, plans are in place to arm the People's Liberation Army Navy, or PLAN, with as many as four aircraft carriers by 2020.

    According to Richard Fisher, senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, China could begin work on its third aircraft carrier at the Jiangnan-Changxin shipyard in Shanghai "very soon."

    This, says DefenseNews, has experts "wary" over China's intentions. But what are these intentions, exactly?

    Crisis and opportunity
    There are three possible scenarios to describe China's sudden interest in joining the world's aircraft-carrier club. And while some of these scenarios might worry some people, when viewed in the most positive light, each scenario also offers us reasons to be optimistic, and to welcome China's aircraft-carrying ambitions.

    Scenario No. 1: China as global superpower
    Under the first scenario, China's desire to build aircraft carriers, plural, suggests a desire to assume global superpower status -- to challenge the U.S. for supremacy of the seas.

    Maybe that's their aim. U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission member Larry Wortzel, for one, sees China's carrier-building activities as proof positive that "the PLA and the party are serious about operating carrier battle groups in the near and far seas by about 2020."

    Yet according to Hong Kong's Ta Kung Pao newspaper, PLAN Senior Capt. Li Jie says China's new carriers will be only "medium-sized" vessels "of about 53,000 tons displacement" -- smaller even than the Liaoning. Placed side-by-side with the class of new 100,000-ton Gerald R. Ford-class supercarriers that America is building, China's mini-carriers would seem veritable bathtub toys, half the size of the Ford class, and carrying only one-third the fighter aircraft. That hardly sounds like a threat.

    [​IMG]

    A side-by-side comparison of America's USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) and China's Liaoning (CV-16). China's new carriers would be even smaller. Illustration: Wikimedia Commons.

    Scenario No. 2: China as regional mini-power
    A more likely scenario is that China is building carriers to project power in its own neighborhood -- in Japan and the Philippines in particular.

    Wortzel notes that building a carrier fleet would permit China to "project power more effectively in the South China Sea." Chinese People's Liberation Army Deputy Head Zhang Junshe reinforced this theoryin an article in China Daily USA over the weekend. He directly tied China's desire for multiple aircraft carriers to fears of a "remilitarization" next door in Japan, which he says "already has two Hyuga-class [helicopter destroyers] which the Western media call "aircraft carriers in disguise."

    Roger Cliff, senior fellow with the Asia Security Initiative at the Atlantic Council, agrees that "four carriers would give China a real, albeit limited, blue water capability" to counter perceived threats from Japan, and to "project air power against lesser countries outside of the range of China's land-based aircraft."

    Scenario No. 3: China as a partner for peace
    The third theory for why China wants carriers sounds disturbing, but also potentially reassuring. Junshe noted that "having two or more aircraft carriers is normal for a regional or global power." What's more, because China is "one of the five permanent members of United Nations Security Council, it has to shoulder global responsibilities."

    What kind of "responsibilities"? Citing the string of natural disasters that have struck Japan, the Philippines, and other countries in the Asia-Pacific region in recent years, Junshe pointed out: "U.S. aircraft carriers played a vital role in the rescue and relief operations. ... Aircraft carriers will allow China, too, to play such a role in the future."

    Farther abroad, China is a major investor in Africa and has a vested interest in ensuring freedom of the seas, and safe transit of merchantmen in the Indian and Atlantic Oceans. In early 2010, three Chinese warships began working in conjunction with American and other warships, patrolling the Gulf of Aden to combat the scourge of Somali piracy. Cliff (the Atlantic Council representative) noted that "for missions like counterpiracy patrols off of Somalia, having a carrier around would be nice, because it can cover a lot more area and more targets than a surface combatant."

    The upshot for investors
    Whatever China's intentions for its aircraft carrier(s), "wariness" among the experts has already proved a boon for investors in U.S. defense contractors Boeing , Lockheed Martin , and Huntington Ingalls , which have enjoyed an upsurge in interest from regional buyers of their missiles, F-35 fighter jets, and warships, respectively. As China's carrier-building program gets under way, and attracts ever more attention from world media, expect that interest to continue and increase.

    As for America, though, we have 104 years of naval air operations under our belt. I doubt we have any immediate need to worry about a country that's still figuring out how to land planes on an aircraft carrier safely. Building an aircraft carrier is one thing. Figuring out how to use it effectively is going to take a whole lot longer.

    [​IMG]

    See? We can build aircraft carriers, too. USS Gerald R. Ford, at its drydock flooding. Photo: Wikimedia Commons


    Psst! America has a secret weapon
    Aircraft carriers are all well and good, but they're kind of 20th-century technology. A better idea to invest in might be the X-factor that U.S. News and World Report says "will drive the U.S. economy." Business Insider calls it "the growth force of our time." And in a special report titled "America's $2.89 Trillion Super Weapon Revealed," we'll tell you all about it -- and explain how to capitalize on this massive growth opportunity. Act now, because this is your shot to cash in before the fat cats on Wall Street beat you to the potentially life-changing profits.

    More Info
     
  6. jonas

    jonas Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Work well underway on China's two new aircraft carriers: Military Parade

    Staff Reporter
    2014-03-02
    15:07 (GMT+8)

    The Moscow-based Military Parade has revealed more details on China's mysterious indigenous aircraft carriers currently under construction in Dalian and Shanghai.

    In an report on Feb. 28, the Russian website said that the first vessel — known as 001A and designed by the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation — is being built in Dalian in northeast China's Liaoning province and will be equipped with a steam catapult. The new carrier is expected to have a greater tonnage than China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, which was originally a Soviet-era Admiral Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier purchased from Ukraine in 1998.

    The second vessel — known as 002 — under construction at Jiangnan shipyard on Shanghai's Changxing island, will be designed as China's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, the report said. The size of the 002 will be similar to the USS Kitty Hawk with a tonnage of 61,351, and will be 5% larger than the 001A.

    Both vessels have been designed based on blueprints of the unfinished Soviet Ulyanovsk-class aircraft carrier, according to Military Parade. The 002 will be fitted with four steam catapults, while the 001A will only have two. The 001A is likely to be named after the northeastern province of Shandong, following in line with the Liaoning, which was also named after a Chinese province.

    The Shandong aircraft carrier may begin its service with the PLA Navy as soon as 2018, the report said, adding that China plans to build a total four aircraft carriers. Once completed, the PLA Navy would be able to establish four carrier battle groups to expand its maritime influence in the South China Sea and Western Pacific.

    Work well underway on China's two new aircraft carriers: Military Parade?Politics?News?WantChinaTimes.com
     
  7. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    China's aircraft carrier leaves for tests, training

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    QINGDAO, March 2 (Xinhua) -- China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, Sunday left its homeport of Qingdao in east China's Shandong Province on tests and training missions.

    The journey is the first of its kind for Liaoning in 2014 and is part of its yearly tests and training schedule, according to sources with he People's Liberation Army Navy.

    The aircraft carrier and its crew have conducted a series of tests and trainings, including landing and takeoff by various aircraft on its deck.

    The Liaoning is China's only aircraft carrier in operation. It was refitted based on an unfinished carrier of the former Soviet Union. The refitted carrier was delivered to the navy on Sept. 25, 2012.


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  8. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy may build three Liaoning-class aircraft carriers to prepare for a potential conflict with Japan in the Asia-Pacific region, according to the Canada-based Kanwa Defense Review operated by Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov.
    The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy may build three Liaoning-class aircraft carriers to prepare for a potential conflict with Japan in the Asia-Pacific region, according to the Canada-based Kanwa Defense Review operated by Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov.

    Light aircraft carriers such as the Liaoning and Japan's Izumo have become vital for the PLA Navy and Japan Maritme Self-Defense Force amid territorial disputes between the two countries, the article said. It added that Japan may become an even greater threat to China if the country successfully introduces a Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship from the United States and deploys its F-35B fighters with vertical take-off and landing ability aboard the ship.

    To face Japan in a potential combat situation, the PLA Navy needs to construct at least three aircraft carriers based on the Liaoning — which was refitted from the Soviet-era carrier Varyag purchased from Ukraine Kanwa said.

    Meanwhile, if Japan is unable to purchase the Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship, the Izumo alone can carry at least 24 F-38B fighters after the vessel's fuel supply facility is removed, while Tokyo will likely choose to purchase cheaper but older AV-8 fighters.

    Japan's F-35B fighter is designed mostly for surface attack missions and it is thus unable to compete against China's J-15 carrier-based fighters. But neither China nor Japan is likely to deploy aircraft carriers against each other over a narrow battlefield like the disputed East China Sea, Kanwa said, adding that if the local conflict escalated into a full scale war, it would be up to the United States to decide whether or not to fight for Japan.
     
  9. ГЛОНАСС

    ГЛОНАСС BANNED BANNED

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    ROFL.

    The US vessel did run away like a chicken! buak buak buak!

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    The Liaoning & it's copies will not pose any threat to US or even to India that much.

    Only a new, nuclear-powered carrier with 5th generation planes (probably based off Russian/Soviet designs) can be a challenge.
     
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  11. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    PLA may build 3 more carriers amid territorial disputes: Kanwa

    [​IMG]
    The Liaoning docked at its home port of Qingdao, June 11, 2013. (Photo/Xinhua)

    The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy may build three Liaoning-class aircraft carriers to prepare for a potential conflict with Japan in the Asia-Pacific region, according to the Canada-based Kanwa Defense Review operated by Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov.

    Light aircraft carriers such as the Liaoning and Japan's Izumo have become vital for the PLA Navy and Japan Maritme Self-Defense Force amid territorial disputes between the two countries, the article said. It added that Japan may become an even greater threat to China if the country successfully introduces a Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship from the United States and deploys its F-35B fighters with vertical take-off and landing ability aboard the ship.

    To face Japan in a potential combat situation, the PLA Navy needs to construct at least three aircraft carriers based on the Liaoning — which was refitted from the Soviet-era carrier Varyag purchased from Ukraine Kanwa said.

    Meanwhile, if Japan is unable to purchase the Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship, the Izumo alone can carry at least 24 F-38B fighters after the vessel's fuel supply facility is removed, while Tokyo will likely choose to purchase cheaper but older AV-8 fighters.

    Japan's F-35B fighter is designed mostly for surface attack missions and it is thus unable to compete against China's J-15 carrier-based fighters. But neither China nor Japan is likely to deploy aircraft carriers against each other over a narrow battlefield like the disputed East China Sea, Kanwa said, adding that if the local conflict escalated into a full scale war, it would be up to the United States to decide whether or not to fight for Japan.


    PLA may build 3 more carriers amid territorial disputes: Kanwa|Politics|News|WantChinaTimes.com
     
  12. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    PLAN will have 1 carrier each for it's 3 fleets. That means 3 operational CBGs.

    Many have not taken into account the fact that once China delivers it's copy of Varyag (CV-16 Liaoning), the existing ship may be
    strictly limited to a training role, or may even be scrapped altogether sometime into the future.

    All in all there could be 2 copies of Varyag (both in STOBAR config w/ J-15 Flankers and powered by steam turbines) and 1 new ship
    (most probably CATOBAR with Chinese EMALS and possibly a naval version of J-31 or J-20, most probably nuclear-powered). This is
    the approach to be taken if China wants the power projection capabilities quickly.

    Or, it could be 1 copy of Varyag (to provide carrier-building experience to Chinese shipyards) and 2 ships of the new CATOBAR design. This
    approach will take much longer time to fructify but will be more beneficial in the long term against US Gerald R. Ford-class CBGs.

    --

    On the other hand, Indian Navy currently has 2 aircraft carriers, the INS Viraat (28,000 tons) & the ex-Gorshkov INS Vikramaditya (45,000 tons).
    They are in STOVL & STOBAR configurations w/ BAE Sea Harriers & MiG-29K respectively. Another carrier, the first one to be built in India,
    the IAC-1, is under construction at Cochin Shipyard, the hull was launched last August. This too is a STOBAR configuration and
    flies MiG-29K, powered by gas turbine engines. This ship will replace the old INS Viraat after 2018. It displaces 40,000 tons, lesser than the
    Russian vessel we bought, but carries more aircraft than the ex-Gorshkov and is a lot more advanced & uses more modern methods of propulsion.

    Plans for a nuclear-powered IAC-2 displacing around 65,000 tons have been established and could get underway in about an year's time,
    riding on the back of a successful IAC-1. This ship may be carrying the proposed naval version of PAK-FA/FGFA as well as E-2D Advanced
    Hawkeye AWACS aircraft.

    Future plans of IN after 2020 may see 2 x IAC-2 ships being built, with the 2nd one replacing the Gorshkov which would be very old by then.

    Both India & China aim to operate 3 aircraft carriers each. India has the edge of having experience in aircraft carrier operations,
    having operated these types of ships since the 1950's. IN put the ex-British INS Vikrant (don't confuse with the IAC-1 which is named in
    honor of this ship) to use in the 1971 war against Pakistan. Sea Hawk aircraft flying off Vikrant blew up US pilot Chuck Yeager's plane
    on the ground during an air raid over Pakistan. You guys should read that story on the internet. Hilarious.

    India seeks to exert power over the Indian Ocean Region (incl. Bay of Bengal & Arabian Sea) while China seeks to project
    power over East & South China Seas and possibly make inroads into the Pacific Ocean.
    A naval PAK-FA/FGFA version would
    definitely be superior to a naval J-31/J-20 version.
     
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  13. Senior_Miguel

    Senior_Miguel REGISTERED

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    In terms of real combat or simply balancing USN power?
     
  14. ГЛОНАСС

    ГЛОНАСС BANNED BANNED

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    America is on the brink of economical colapse.

    Soon the red budget pencil will be the biggest anti carrier weapon of the world. ROFL
     
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  15. ГЛОНАСС

    ГЛОНАСС BANNED BANNED

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