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Chinese J-20 5th Generation Fighter Jet

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by Martian, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    [​IMG]
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    J-20 and Mig 1.44 :devilwork:
     
  2. Martian

    Martian Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    China's J-20 is a stealth fighter. The Mig 1.44 was not.

    China's J-20 has air intakes on the side. The Mig 1.44 has air intakes below its fuselage.

    China's J-20 has DSI intakes. The Mig 1.44 does not.

    China's J-20 has stealthy S-ducts (or serpentine ducts). The Mig 1.44 does not.

    China's J-20 has angled vertical stabilizers for stealth. The Mig 1.44 does not.

    China's J-20 has an AESA radar. The Mig 1.44 does not.

    China's J-20 has planform alignment. The Mig 1.44 does not.

    China's J-20 has its canards directly in front of its main wings. The Mig 1.44 has canards located at a higher elevation than its wings.

    China's J-20 has internal weapon bays. The Mig 1.44 does not.

    In conclusion, China's J-20 has no relation to the Mig 1.44. The only thing you can claim is that they are both delta-wing fighters. However, many aircraft worldwide are delta-wing fighters (such as the Eurofighter, the Rafale, the F-14 Tomcat, etc.).
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    Let's review the key concepts.

    1. China's Chengdu J-20 obeys continuous curvature. This deflects radar waves away from the J-20. The Mig 1.44 does not obey continuous curvature design.

    2. China's Chengdu J-20 follows planform alignment. This minimizes the angles of radar reflection. The Mig 1.44 does not follow planform alignment.

    3. China's Chengdu J-20 has serpentine ducts (or S-ducts). This minimizes radar reflection from the turbofan engine blades. The Mig 1.44 does not have S-ducts.

    4. China's Chengdu J-20 has one underside internal bay and two side weapon bays. This minimizes radar reflections from weapons. The Mig 1.44 has no internal bays and its exposed weapons reflect radar waves.

    5. China's Chengdu J-20 underside follows stealth facet design. Radar waves are bounced away like a mirror. The Mig 1.44 has lumps on its underside and it is not mirror smooth like the J-20.

    6. China's Chengdu J-20 is covered with a stealth coating, including the engine pods. The Mig 1.44 has no stealth coating. The Russian Pak-Fa also has no stealth coating over its engine pods. The Russians have not solved the heat dissipation problem when a stealth coating envelops the metal engine pods.

    7. China's Chengdu J-20 has advanced glass displays. The Mig 1.44 used old CRT screens.

    8. China's Chengdu J-20 has DSI intakes for smooth supersonic flight. The Mig 1.44 needs mechanical ramps.

    9. China's Chengdu J-20 has an AESA radar. The Mig 1.44 has an old mechanical radar.

    10. China's Chengdu J-20 has EOTS. The Mig 1.44 has no such sensors. The Pak Fa also lacks an EOTS.

    11. China's Chengdu J-20 has EODAS. The Mig 1.44 has no such sensors. The Pak Fa also lacks an EODAS.

    12. China's Chengdu J-20 has canards horizontally aligned with its wings to minimize the surface area exposed to oncoming radar. The Mig 1.44 has its canards and wings at different elevations, which maximizes radar reflection.

    13. China's Chengdu J-20 has angled vertical stabilizers to deflect radar away from an emitting source approaching from the side of the aircraft. The Mig 1.44 has non-stealthy vertical stabilizers to maximize the radar return to an oncoming aircraft from the side.

    Angled vertical stabilizers have different fluid dynamic characteristics than non-stealthy vertical stabilizers.

    14. China's Chengdu J-20 is designed to supercruise. The Mig 1.44 was never designed for supercruise.

    In conclusion, aside from being delta-wing fighters, there is no similarity between the J-20 and the Mig 1.44.
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    If you understand stealth design, it is easy to see the vast differences between the stealthy Chinese Chengdu J-20 and the non-stealthy Russian Mig 1.44
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  3. Martian

    Martian Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    The Chinese Chengdu J-20 and the Russian Mig 1.44 lie on opposite ends of the air superiority spectrum.

    The Chinese Chengdu J-20 can easily penetrate current air defense networks. X-band and upper S-band radars are useless against the Chengdu J-20.

    On the other hand, the Mig 1.44 has zero chance of penetrating current air defense systems. An X-band radar would easily pinpoint the location of the Mig 1.44 and a SAM would shoot it down.

    There is no functional or design similarities between the Chengdu J-20 and Russian Mig 1.44. Let me give you another easy example. Look at the picture of the Mig 1.44. Do you see those weapon pylons hanging off the wings? Those are not stealthy. In contrast, the Chengdu J-20 has carefully-designed internal weapon bays to hide its weapon payload from radar detection.

    When you compare the Chengdu J-20 stealth features to the Mig 1.44 (see picture in above post), you will see that all of the Chengdu J-20 stealth features are MISSING from the Russian Mig 1.44.

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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Agreed.

    Just like the YF-23.

    The F-22 and YF-23 don't either.

    It does.

    It does. Look at the picture.

    Haha.

    It does.

    Not particularly relevant when Mig 1.44 was RO.

    It does. Just not on the first prototype.

    Agree.
     
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  5. Martian

    Martian Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    It looks like China has deployed two operational Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters at an airbase with three AEW&C surveillance aircraft.

    Photo of the day: Two operational J-20

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    Let's magnify the picture and take a closer look at the pair of operational Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters.

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  6. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    6 should enter active duty within weeks. 2 will stay at Dingxin.
     
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  7. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Official chinese document related to J-20

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    Rumours said in training 10:0 vs J-10 and 8:0 vs Su30 MKK
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Those are just 1500Km arcs.

    And it's not a big deal getting a good kill ratio against a strike fighter like the Su-30MKK. Are you sure it's not the Su-27?
     
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  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Source is good, but citing insistent rumours only. MKK.
     
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  10. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is from Red Sword 2016 exercise at Dingxin.
     
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  11. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    As per indian air marshal, J 20 is not stealth and any operationalization of J 20 shall not be any cause of concern for indian airforce.
     
  12. Martian

    Martian Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Can India build a stealth fighter? No.

    Can India build a turbofan engine? No.

    Therefore, no one cares what an ignorant Indian Air Marshal thinks. India has zero expertise in building modern jet fighters.

    On the other hand, China has built the J-20 and J-31 stealth fighters. Also, the J-10B was used as a test platform for many of the stealth technologies (such as DSI and RAM-coated cockpit canopy).

    China has proven its ability to build the smokeless WS-10A turbofan engine, which contrasts with the smoky turbofan engines from Russia.

    In conclusion, China is an expert in stealth technology and turbofan engines. India has no experience with stealth technology and turbofan engines. Thus, an Indian Air Marshal's opinion is completely worthless because these technologies do no exist in India.
     
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  13. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Hey but the Chinese air force has never been tested nor contested.
     
  14. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    None of the Chinese tech has seen battle.
     
  15. Martian

    Martian Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Neither has the F-22 nor F-35 met another stealth fighter in battle.

    However, the Chinese J-20 and J-31 meet the design specifications. For example, we know the J-20 has a service ceiling of 66,000 feet. In contrast, the F-35 has a service ceiling of 50,000 feet. Thus, we can conclude the J-20 has an advantage in an engagement with an F-35. Shooting an air-to-air missile from 16,000 feet higher in altitude will allow the missile to travel further.

    Another example is the larger J-20 radar. We know the J-20 is a physically larger airplane. The J-20 has 1,856 transmit/receive (T/R) elements for its AESA radar. On the other hand, the F-35 radar only has 1,200 T/R elements. The J-20 can form a stronger radar beam and can detect the F-35 first.

    In conclusion, there are many objective measures (such as two J-20 engines that allow for faster acceleration and a smooth stealthy J-20 fuselage unlike the F-35's lumpy underside) that indicate the J-20 is far superior to the F-35 in performance.
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    Chinese Chengdu J-20 is superior to the F-35 in eight important ways.

    1. Chengdu J-20 can supercruise. Lockheed Martin F-35 cannot.

    2. Chengdu J-20 has all-aspect stealth. F-35 does not. F-35 has bulges above the left air intake for the gun turret, along the wing root, and the underside. The bulges are not stealthy and run counter to the flat facets or continuous curvature of stealth aircraft design.

    3. Chengdu J-20 is a larger plane with a larger radar, which gives it greater detection range.

    4. Chengdu J-20 has a larger weapon payload to carry more air-to-air missiles than the F-35.

    5. Chengdu J-20 is more maneuverable (about 9G). F-35 can only maneuver around 5G.

    6. Chengdu J-20 has a combat radius of about 1,200 miles. F-35 has a short combat radius of about 500 miles.

    7. Chengdu J-20 has twin engines. If one fails, the J-20 keeps flying. The F-35 only has one engine. If the F-35 engine fails, the F-35 jet drops into the sea.

    8. The expected service ceiling for the Chengdu J-20 is about 66,000 feet. The service ceiling for the F-35 is 50,000 feet. This means the J-20 will use its look-down shoot-down radar on the F-35. Also, the J-20's missiles will travel further as it glides down towards the F-35. Conversely, the F-35 missiles will have shorter range as it climbs against gravity in an attempt to reach the J-20.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
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