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Chinese J-20 and J-31 5th Generation Fighter Jets

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by Martian, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    i do not understand that, what do you mean?

    but i leave you a few pictures of PAKFA

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  2. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Man what a loser. This guy keeps on quoting this article on this thread and others, knowing quite well that ruppeenews is a Pakistani Propaganda website with extremely imaginative articles. Their main agenda is to uphold the image of great pakistand and show how India is inferior.

    But this is totally understandable! They have to do something to give their people hope when in in reality India can snuff out Pak defenses like that!

    And AA, being fully aware that rupeenews is a Pakistani website, keeps on quoting irrelevant and crappy articles! What a Jackass!
     
  3. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    PAKFA is ahead of J-20 this says 117 will enter production in 2013



    МОСКВА, 10 авг - РИА Новости. Перспективный комплекс фронтовой авиации (ПАК ФА), известный как истребитель пятого поколения Т-50, серийно поступит в войска в 2015 году с новым двигателем, сообщил РИА Новости в пятницу начальник Государственного летно-испытательного центра имени Чкалова Герой России полковник Радик Бариев.

    Сейчас, по словам Бариева, истребитель проходит испытания с двигателем, который является переходным от четвертого к пятому поколению ("4++"). Прототип двигателя пятого поколения под названием "изделие 117С", оснащенный электронно-цифровой системой автоматического управления и внешней силовой установкой, находится на заводских испытаниях, отметил собеседник агентства.

    "Со следующего года мы начнем государственные испытания. После чего он будет принят на вооружение и поступит в войска. Самолет пятого поколения войдет в серию с этим двигателем", - сказал Бариев.

    Новый двигатель создается совместно НПО "Сатурн" и ОАО "Уфимское моторостроительное производственное объединение".



    Читайте далее: Ã￾¡Ã￾µÑ€Ã￾¸Ã￾¹Ã￾½Ñ‹Ã￾µ Ã￾ŸÃ￾Â￾Ã￾š Ã￾¤Ã￾Â￾ Ã￾¿Ã￾¾ÑÂ￾туÃ￾¿ÑÂ￾Ñ‚ Ã￾² Ã￾’Ã￾’Ã￾¡ ÑÂ￾ Ã￾½Ã￾¾Ã￾²Ñ‹Ã￾¼ Ã￾´Ã￾²Ã￾¸Ã￾³Ã￾°Ñ‚Ã￾µÃ￾»Ã￾µÃ￾¼ Ã￾¿ÑÂ￾Ñ‚Ã￾¾Ã￾³Ã￾¾ Ã￾¿Ã￾¾Ã￾ºÃ￾¾Ã￾»Ã￾µÃ￾½Ã￾¸ÑÂ￾ | Ã￾Â￾Ã￾¾Ã￾²Ã￾¾Ã￾µ Ã￾¾Ñ€Ã‘ƒÃ￾¶Ã￾¸Ã￾µ Ã￾**Ã￾¾ÑÂ￾ÑÂ￾Ã￾¸Ã￾¸ | Ã￾**Ã￾˜Ã￾Â￾ Ã￾Â￾Ã￾¾Ã￾²Ã￾¾ÑÂ￾Ñ‚Ã￾¸


    do not worry, averageamerican is not average at all
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  4. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Indian PAK-FA variant delayed by two years

    Image by Maxim Maksimov via Wikimedia

    Previously, India's defense minister A K Antony had said the Sukhoi/Hindustan Aeronautics Limited Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) would be inducted into the Indian Air Force by 2017. On 14 May, deputy minister M M Pallam Raju told the Indian parliament that the project is being delayed.

    "The fifth generation aircraft is scheduled to be certified by 2019, following which the series production will start," Pallam Raju says.

    The Indian T-50 variant, which the country hopes to buy 250 of, is expected to cost about $100 million per copy--$25 billion for the whole Indian production run. The Russians are also buying 250 jets.

    But the Indian variant is far more ambitious that the original Russian version of the T-50. The Indians have a good 40 to 45 improvements that they want incorporated.

    One notable feature that India wants is a 360° active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar rather than the more conventional AESA found on the original Russian aircraft. A 360° AESA would be a first for any fighter on the planet, and it will undoubtedly be expensive.

    Nor have the Indians determined if they want an enhanced single-seat version of the fighter or if they want to develop a two-seat variant. Redesigning the airframe might adversely affect the aircraft's stealth characteristics or impact the jet's performance to a degree that the Indians find unacceptable. It would also add to the jet's cost. The Indians will make that decision pending the outcome of the FGFA's preliminary design phase.

    The Indian side of the programme is focusing on composite materials that can withstand flights at Mach 1.7. That suggests that the goal of the Indo-Russian effort is to the design the fighter to cruise at around those airspeeds--which would be comparable to the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor.

    From the Indian perspective, perhaps the most important aspect of the FGFA effort is that the country's engineers are being embedded with their Russian counterparts. That would enable the Indians to learn how to design and build a large twin-engine fighter from the relatively early stages of the project
    Indian PAK-FA variant delayed by two years - The DEW Line

    An there is not a snow balls chance in hell of even accomplishing this schedule.
     
  6. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    With regard to the threat environment that the new fighter will face, it cites "the emergence of high-performance fighter aircraft with excellent stealth capability and situation awareness capabilities".

    This is clearly an allusion to Beijing’s developmental Chengdu J-20. Experts have questioned the ability of Chinese industry to create an advanced, stealthy fighter with capabilities such as supercruise and true sensor fusion. Nonetheless, general media has stoked a perception that the J-20 will be a rival to advanced western aircraft such as the Lockheed F-22. A Pentagon report in May suggested that the J-20 will be operational in 2018.http://http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-tokyo-casts-wary-eye-on-chinese-airpower-developments-375007/
     
  7. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Chinese military observers have dismissed recent speculation over the development of China's second stealth fighter J-21, after military fans posted pictures of a mysterious airframe covered by camouflage online.

    Videos and photos posted on the forum defensecn.com in late June showed a truck carrying the airframe traveling from Shenyang, Northeast China's Liaoning Province, where the AVIC Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is located, to Yanliang, Northwest China's Shaanxi Province, home to the Chinese Flight Test Establishment.

    Military fans believed it was a fifth-generation fighter J-21, which is nicknamed "Snowy Owl," and speculated that it would take test flights or wind tunnel tests in September.

    Japan's The Diplomat magazine earlier this month commented that it is not impossible for China to develop another stealth aircraft while struggling with the J-20 developed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation, especially if the aircraft are to play different roles.

    It quoted Roger Cliff, who co-authored the RAND monograph, as saying that the J-20 would perform the role of a penetrating strike aircraft and the J-21 that of an air superiority fighter.

    The magazine also said some experts believe the rumored J-21 could be a carrier-based stealth aircraft, while others point to its role as an export item to compete with the US light fighter F-35.

    Meanwhile, Chinese military experts are still being cautious about the camouflaged airframe"The rumors on the Internet are not trustworthy," Li Daguang, a military expert at the PLA National Defense University, told the Global Times, adding that as far as he knows, there is no such new model.

    Song Xiaojun, a military expert, told the Global Times that he also noticed the photos of the rumored plane, but added it was hard to say what it is.

    "It might just be a model made of iron or wood. All the speculation is based on hearsay," Song said.

    China's first stealth fighter, the J-20, has two prototypes. The new prototype 2002 has been conducting rounds of test flights in Chengdu, Sichuan Province since May.Military observers dismiss rumors of new stealth fighter development - Globaltimes.cn
     
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  8. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The Su-35 flies with two next generation AL-41F1C engines that enable it to achieve hypersonic speed without afterburner, a feature attributed to 5G jets. And AL-41F1C actually is a de-rated version of the AL-41F1 (117C) engine used on the undergoing tests T-50 PAK-FA, Russian 5G fighter

    In 2010, when Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov was on visit to China, Beijing proposed to buy 117C engines, but the offer was turned down.
    Russians agreed to sell only assembled planes and in addition insist on signing a special anti-copycat agreement, designed to prevent the Chinese from copying the vehicle and its parts, as has happened before
    ChineseFor military aircraft, we have created two engines - one for the aircraft, like Su-35 ", the second - for the Russian aircraft 5 th generation of T-50". The first - is "117C" - is mainly intended for export. He is more simple in terms of aerodynamics, and most importantly - targeted for aircraft with conventional arms, suspended on pylons outside the fuselage, with no strong constraints on dimensions. Such schemes fro example are used on 4-th generation aircrafts , exported to India and Malaysia.

    The second engine - is "117" - though only differ by one letter in the title, much more advanced engine - this is a real engine of the 5-th generation. From the rivals can sometimes be heard the 5-th generation engine should be with such a blade, such and such materials, high-speed rotors, and you do not have this ... None of this is all just ways of achieving the goal. A single goal - increasing specific thrust, ie the ratio of thrust to its weight.







    Q - In the difficult years for the Russian aircraft industry, aircraft building companies that produced military aircraft survived by exports, especially in China and India. Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. Not whether as a result we lose our traditional markets of combat aircraft?

    A - We dont, because such an aircraft as we have, the Chinese have no and will have no in visible prospective. They say that they have made a 5-th generation plane, but one can say anything ... Their best engine was copied from our "AL-31F. And we produce 5-th generation engines , and they are in all of their parameters of thrust, specific fuel consumption correspond to the 5-th generation. I opened the secret and say that we actually already have two 5-th generation engines. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 ". In the future it probably will give the name of "AL-...." According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent better than "117 th". Defunct Humanity: New interview with Al-41F chief designer

    According to Victor Mihailovic Chepkin, one of the creators of the 117 and 117S, the creators of WS-10 used the AL-31`s mantainance technical documentation, which according to him is almost like the same documentation to build the Al-31, to create the WS-10, he says the WS-10 is not a complete copy of Al-31, but around 70% of Al-31 technologies ended up in the WS-10

    Китайский самолет — это точная копия нашего?

    — Что касается двигателя, это не точная копия. Я его видел. Китайцы использовали и свои разработки, но на 70 процентов это наш "АЛ-31Ф", автоматика вся наша. Покупать лицензию на производство двигателя они не стали, лишь купили лицензию на ремонт двигателя (естественно со всеми чертежами). А поскольку ремонт и производство, по сути, очень близки, китайцы все тщательно изучили и самостоятельно освоили производство. В Китае очень грамотные инженеры, и то, что они освоят эту продукцию, у меня лично никаких сомнений не было. Поэтому выход у нас один — сделать лучше. И мы сделали двигатель "117С". Пусть теперь они за нами погоняются!

    "


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  9. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    In the air, China fleet consists of over five hundred attack aircraft and bombers, over hundreds of reconnaissance aircraft, 300 transport aircraft, as well as over a thousand fighters. In addition, China has developed a high-tech fighter Invisible J-20 that will not be detected by potential enemy radars. However, the date of deployment of J-20 is not yet specified.

    China continues to increase defensive potential - English pravda.ru

    Vitcto Chepkin claims J-20 has inferior engines to T-50, they are just modified and copied Al-31s

    — Не потеряем, потому что такого самолета как у нас, у китайцев нет и в ближайшее время не будет! Они говорят, что сделали самолет 5-го поколения, но говорить можно что угодно… Их лучший двигатель скопирован с нашего "АЛ-31Ф". У нас же действительно двигатель 5-го поколения, и он по всем своим параметрам, по тяге, по удельному расходу топлива соответствует 5-му поколению. Я приоткрою тайну и скажу, что у нас фактически уже есть два двигателя 5-го поколения. Второй, который сейчас условно называется "тип 30", уже испытывался в полете на истребителе "Т-50". В дальнейшем ему, наверное, дадут имя "АЛ-…". По своим параметрам он на 15-25 процентов превосходит "117-й".

    Victor Chepkin claims Russia has tested type 30 engine much more powerful than 117
    Ã￾‘Ã￾»Ã￾¾Ã￾³ Ã￾Â￾Ã￾»Ã￾µÃ￾ºÑÂ￾Ã￾°Ã￾½Ã￾´Ñ€Ã￾° Ã￾¨Ã￾°Ã￾ºÑƒÃ￾½Ã￾° - Ã￾’Ã￾¸Ã￾ºÑ‚Ã￾¾Ñ€ Ã￾§Ã￾µÃ￾¿Ã￾ºÃ￾¸Ã￾½. Ã￾Â￾Ã￾°Ñˆ Ã￾¾Ñ‚Ã￾²Ã￾µÑ‚... Ã￾§Ã￾µÃ￾¼Ã￾±Ã￾µÑ€Ã￾»Ã￾µÃ￾½Ñƒ?
     
  10. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    and the PAKFA

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    According to Russia`s Air force Commander Alexander Zelin T-50 surpases J-20 in performance and Agility.

    If that is true perhaps even Su-35 can surpass the performance of J-20
    [​IMG]

    Saturn`s general director Victor Mihailovich Chepklin affirms J-20 lacks the engine power
    and China lacks a true fifth generation fighter engine

    Не потеряем, потому что такого самолета как у нас, у китайцев нет и в ближайшее время не будет! Они говорят, что сделали самолет 5-го поколения, но говорить можно что угодно… Их лучший двигатель скопирован с нашего "АЛ-31Ф". У нас же действительно двигатель 5-го поколения,
    http://azlok.livejournal.com/264061.html

    The Su-35 flies with two next generation AL-41F1C engines that enable it to achieve hypersonic speed without afterburner, a feature attributed to 5G jets. And AL-41F1C actually is a de-rated version of the AL-41F1 (117C) engine used on the undergoing tests T-50 PAK-FA, Russian 5G fighter jet.......

    In 2010, when Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov was on visit to China, Beijing proposed to buy 117C engines, but the offer was turned down

    Russians agreed to sell only assembled planes and in addition insist on signing a special anti-copycat agreement, designed to prevent the Chinese from copying the vehicle and its parts, as has happened before.Chinese
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
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  11. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
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  12. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    it i possible Su-35 has better performance than J-20
    due to its 117 engines

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
  13. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The J20 is mainly a stike aircraft however it will have better survivability against surface to air missiles.
     
  14. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Depends on wether opponent has VHF-radar-guided SAMs.
     
  15. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    J20 vs F35 in strike role? Who wins?
     

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