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Chinese troops intrude into Indian territory in Ladakh, erect tent post

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by Rock n Rolla, Apr 20, 2013.

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  1. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Postcard to Mr Khurshid

    Dear Mr Khurshid,

    I wish you a fruitful journey next week, when you visit China to apply ointment on the "beautiful face" of Sino-Indian relations, which you observe has been marred by the "acne" of China's military intrusion into the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector in Ladakh. You and the prime minister have wisely downplayed the intrusion so far; inflammatory public statements would only make a happy ending more elusive. But please do not display the same forbearance in your official conversations in Beijing.

    Be certain that the Chinese will blame these occasional confrontations on the Indian army's insistence on building up forces and infrastructure on the Line of Actual Control (LAC). You will hear that the best way to de-escalate is an immediate mutual cap on troop numbers and military infrastructure. Such an understanding, your counterpart will sagely observe, can maintain the peace until a wiser generation can resolve the border dispute (or, as India calls it, the border question).

    Hon'ble Minister, do not allow yourself to be sidetracked from the central issue of the moment: a flagrant violation of the status quo through the occupation of territory that both sides claim. This is no routine patrol incursion, which is common since both sides routinely patrol up to their perceived boundaries in order to keep alive their claims. Instead, this is an escalation that establishes "facts on the ground" that would materially affect an eventual territorial settlement. Remember the Wangdung intrusion, near Tawang, in 1986? That pocket, where the Chinese had pitched up a few tents, much like they did at DBO last fortnight, continues to remain with them.

    In contrast to the furious Indian response at Wangdung, where the army built up forces aggressively to dominate the Chinese camp, the Indian army has fallen in line with orders from the top, refraining from a troop build-up or even tough talk that could shut the door to a face-saving de-escalation. But remember, the Chinese style is to keep testing an opponent's resolve. In DBO, China is "taking the temperature" again. You must make it clear that - even in the absence of a Wangdung-type troop build-up - all options remain on India's table. The "proportionality" that you have advocated could involve a similar occupation of disputed territory by Indian troops at a selected time and place.

    Naturally Your Excellency would never use crude threats, but a man of your sophistication would find the diplomatic language to indicate to Beijing a red line - consolidation of the intrusion. If the Chinese patrol replaces tents with permanent shelters, the Indian army will conclude that they intend to remain there through winter. In that case, it will be difficult for the government to explain to voters why it is not reacting militarily to a Kargil-style occupation of Indian territory.

    Your counterpart will undoubtedly repeat the statement that Chinese soldiers are on their own side of the LAC. Your response should be: "Well, what do you believe is the alignment of the LAC? You cannot claim simultaneously that your troops are on your side of the LAC; while also refusing to share with us your perception of that line."

    The starkest lesson of DBO is that, without mutual agreement over where the LAC runs, or even "agreed disagreement" over both sides' view of their frontier, the uncertainty becomes unmanageable. There is the ever-present danger of routine patrols being seen as "intrusions", and a new encampment like the Chinese one at DBO being seen as territorial aggression, triggering an armed face-off.

    Your Excellency, make clear to Beijing that it must exchange maps with India on which both sides have marked what they perceive as the LAC. For over 30 years now China has refused to spell out what it believes is the LAC despite repeated requests from New Delhi since December 1981, when the first round of boundary talks took place.

    Article 10 of the solemn bilateral agreement of 1996 says: "the two sides agree to speed up the process of clarification and confirmation of the Line of Actual Control." China ignores this, as also repeated Indian requests in meetings of the Joint Working Group (JWG).

    China has benefited from this lack of clarity by continually shifting its claim line westwards. Last Tuesday, foreign ministry spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin said he had "asked the Chinese side to maintain status quo in this sector, and by status quo I mean status quo prior to this incident". The problem is that there are multiple status quos in this area. China keeps changing its patrolling pattern and India is left guessing. Today China can occupy practically any hilltop in southeastern Ladakh and claim that it is on its own side of the LAC.

    For all these reasons, Mr Khurshid, the ministry of external affairs (MEA) cannot continue with its misplaced satisfaction at having activated the joint consultative mechanism. While this talk shop convenes and both sides reiterate boilerplate positions, the Chinese patrol remains in Raki Nala.

    Finally, Your Excellency, the timing of this incursion - a month before Premier Li Keqiang's visit - is hardly coincidental. China's new regime is clearly testing New Delhi's resolve, checking to see whether the MEA's wish to make the visit a success will induce it to meekly accept the incursion at DBO. Your discussions in Beijing will set the tone for the next 10 years. We are confident you will flash the steel that your predecessor, S M Krishna, did in reminding the Chinese that our sensitivities in J&K matched Chinese sensitivities in Tibet; coming closer than any Indian official before or after to reopening the Tibet question.

    Postcard to Mr Khurshid | Business Standard
     
  2. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Army chief tells Government it's time to act on Chinese border deadlock

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Pondering their options: Army Chief General Bikram Singh (left) and Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma pictured leaving the Prime Minister's residence

    As three flag meetings failed to end the border deadlock with China and diplomatic efforts made little headway, army chief General Bikram Singh briefed the cabinet committee on security on the situation, bringing military options on the table.

    The government is sure that the Chinese are prepared for a long haul, and there is a growing feeling in the army that action at the tactical level can be exercised to deal with what has been described as a 'localised' problem.

    One of the measures that was discussed is cutting the supply route of the Chinese troops at the face-off site around 30km south east of Daulat Beg Oldi. The area forms part of Burste bulge which comprises Depsang plains.

    But the option will be difficult to execute because of extremely inhospitable high-altitude terrain leading up to the Karakoram Pass. Sources said the nearest Chinese Border Management regiment supporting the tented post with around 40 troops in Raki Nala is at Chip Chap, around 25km north of face-off site.

    The access to Chip Chap Valley from the Indian side is difficult and only small patrols can be launched along with the tracks. The response would be difficult but not impossible, sources said.

    The other options being weighed included increasing the troop presence in the region to send out a strong signal and launch aggressive patrols at multiple locations along Line of Actual Control (LAC). An operation at the tactical level is also being supported by the veterans.

    Lt-Gen (retd) Shankar Prasad told Mail Today that the government should trust the Generals and the army to resolve the situation at the tactical level.

    "Time has come to respond. We cannot be humiliated all the time. We should be prepared for a strategic response. The government should trust its generals and the army and allow it to display its professional competence. The Generals of today are not like the Generals of 1962. The government should give them the chance to respond," he said.

    The government has not ruled out escalation if the military option is exercised. Apart from giving response at the tactical level, the army is also pressing for better border management by implementing one border, one force policy.

    The LAC is manned jointly by ITBP and the army and there was a lack of coordination between the two forces. The army has been seeking operational control of ITBP for several years now but the home ministry has blocked the move.

    Despite the ongoing border stand-off, an eight-member Indian delegation led by a brigadier crossed over to the Chinese side in Chushul in eastern Ladakh to take part in the annual May Day function.

    The border personnel meeting on May Day is held every year at three locations on the China border at Chushul, Bumla near Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh and Nathu La in Sikkim. But the meeting on Wednesday took place only at Chushul and lasted around five hours.

    [​IMG]

    Army chief tells Government it's time to act on Chinese border deadlock | Mail Online
     
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  3. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Please do something General Bikram Singh, we don't trust UPA with National Security anymore. [​IMG]
     
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  4. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Govt not to hand over Indo-Tibetan Border Police control to Army

    New Delhi: Government will not hand over the command of Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) to Army notwithstanding its demand for operational control of the paramilitary force which guards the Sino-Indian border.

    In the wake of renewed tension along the border, the Army has pushed for taking over control of ITBP for “cohesion, coordination and synergy” to counter Chinese Army’s “offensives” acts.

    “There is no plan to hand over the operational control of ITBP to Army,” a senior government functionary told PTI.

    The Army wants to man the Line Of Actual Control (LAC) along the India-China border post border face off with Beijing over PLA’s last month incursion in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector of Ladakh. It wants an arrangement like Assam Rilfes which is administratively under the control of the Union Home Ministry but which reports to the Defence Ministry.

    Even the tussle between the Home and Defence Ministries for getting complete control of Assam Rifles has continued for the last few years now.

    A Home Ministry official ruled out the possibility of handing over the operational control of the ITBP to the Army which wants its for better cohesion, coordination and synergy. As per the reports received by the ministry, the ITBP patrol team detected the incursion around midnight on April 15 and reported the matter to their immediate command.

    A Quick Reaction Team was dispatched to check Chinese PLA march beyond Rakhi Nallah.

    http://www.firstpost.com/fwire/govt-not-to-hand-over-indo-tibetan-border-police-control-to-army-745989.html?utm_source=fwire&utm_medium=hp

    No surprises!! :fuu:
     
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  5. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Chinese are testing India to see how far they can go, says expert

    [​IMG]

    The platoon of Chinese soldiers slipped across the boundary into India in the middle of the night, according to Indian officials. They were ferried across the bitterly cold moonscape in Chinese army vehicles, then got out to traverse a dry creek bed with a helicopter hovering overhead for protection.

    They finally reached their destination and pitched a tent in the barren Depsang Valley in the Ladakh region, a symbolic claim of sovereignty deep inside Indian-held territory. So stealthy was the operation that India did not discover the incursion until a day later, Indian officials said.

    China denies any incursion, but Indian officials say that for two weeks, the soldiers have refused to move back over the so-called Line of Actual Control that divides Indian-ruled territory from Chinese-run land, leaving the government on the verge of a crisis with its powerful northeastern neighbor.

    Indian officials fear that if they react with force, the face-off could escalate into a battle with the powerful People's Liberation Army. But doing nothing would leave a Chinese outpost deep in territory India has ruled since independence.

    "If they have come 19 kilometers into India, it is not a minor LAC violation. It is a deliberate military operation. And even as India protests, more tents have come up," said Sujit Dutta, a China specialist at the Jamia Milia Islamia university in New Delhi.

    "Clearly, the Chinese are testing India to see how far they can go," he said.

    That is not China's stated view.

    Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said Thursday that Chinese troops had been carrying out normal patrols and had not crossed the boundary.

    "China is firmly opposed to any acts that involve crossing the Line of Actual Control and sabotaging the status quo," she said at a daily briefing in Beijing as she was repeatedly questioned about the dispute.

    Hua said talks to defuse the dispute were ongoing and that it should not affect relations. "As we pointed out many times, the China-India border issue is one which was left over from the past. The two sides reached important consensus that this issue should not affect the overall bilateral relations," Hua said.

    Local army commanders from both sides have held three meetings over the crisis, according to Indian officials. India's foreign secretary called in the Chinese ambassador to register a strong protest. Yet the troops did not move, and even pitched a second tent, Indian officials said.

    The timing of the crisis, weeks before Chinese Premier Li Keqiang is to visit India, has surprised many here. The Chinese leader's decision to make India his first trip abroad since taking office two months ago had been seen as an important gesture toward strengthening ties between rival powers that have longstanding border disputes but also growing trade relations.

    Manoj Joshi, a defense analyst at the New Delhi-based Observer Research Foundation, said the timing of the incursion raises questions about "whether there is infighting within the Chinese leadership, or whether someone is trying to upstage Li."

    Indian External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said Wednesday that while he had no plans to cancel a trip to Beijing next week to prepare for Li's visit, the government could reconsider in the coming week.

    "A week is a long time in politics," he told reporters.

    Indian politicians accused the scandal-plagued government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of floundering in fear before China.

    "China realizes that India has a weak government, and a prime minister who is powerless," said Yashwant Sinha, a former foreign minister from the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party.

    He demanded a stronger response. "A bully will back off the moment it realizes that it's dealing with a country which will not submit to its will," Sinha said.

    Former Defense Minister Mulayam Singh Yadav called the government "cowardly and incompetent." He warned that China was trying to annex more territory to add to the spoils it took following its victory over India in a brief 1962 border war.

    Defense Minister A.K. Antony countered that India is "united in its commitment to take every possible step to safeguard our interests."

    Supporters of the right-wing Shiv Sena party burned effigies of Singh, Antony and other top officials Wednesday, demanding India retaliate by barring Chinese imports.

    China is India's biggest trading partner, with bilateral trade heavily skewed in China's favor, crossing $75 billion in 2011.

    Analysts feel linking a troop withdrawal to continued trade could work.

    "The Chinese have to learn that such aggression cannot be delinked from trade," Dutta said.

    Though the two countries have held 15 rounds of talks, their border disputes remain unresolved. India says China is occupying 38,000 square kilometers (15,000 square miles) in the Aksai Chin plateau in the western Himalayas, while China claims around 90,000 square kilometers (35,000 square miles) in India's northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

    Analysts said they were baffled by Beijing's motives, since its actions could force India to move closer to Beijing's biggest rival, the United States.

    "The Chinese for some reason don't seem able to see that," said Joshi.

    China's aggressive posture could also force India to accelerate its own military modernization program, analysts said.

    The stand-off may eventually be resolved diplomatically, "but what it really shows is the PLA's contempt for our military capability," former Indian navy chief Sushil Kumar wrote in The Indian Express newspaper.

    It could also push the government to agree to the army's longstanding demand to create its own strike corps on the border.

    "By needling the Indians, they are helping us to accelerate our modernization," Joshi said.

    Chinese are testing India to see how far they can go, says expert : North, News - India Today
     
  6. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  7. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Where China Meets India, Push Comes to Shove

    [​IMG]

    NEW DELHI — The disputed border region between India and China attracts troops from both countries, but two weeks ago the Chinese sent an unusual number of military patrols into the mountains of Ladakh, a remote high-altitude desert at the northern tip of India.

    Two Chinese patrols came on foot, two more arrived in military vehicles and a Chinese helicopter flew overhead. With all the activity, the Indian authorities failed to notice until the next morning that about 30 Chinese soldiers had pitched three tents in an area both countries claim.

    Indian military officials protested. The Chinese stayed put. India protested again. The Chinese, who had with them a few high-altitude guard dogs, responded by erecting two more tents and raising a sign saying, “You are in Chinese side.”

    As the dispute enters its third week, alarm in the Indian capital is growing. At a Thursday news briefing, Syed Akbaruddin, the spokesman for India’s Ministry of External Affairs, said, “There is no doubt that in the entire country this is a matter of concern.”

    But the prime minister has sought to play down the dispute.

    “It is a localized problem,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said Saturday. “We do believe it can be solved. We have a plan. We do not want to accentuate the situation.”

    Still, jingoistic comments are growing by politicians linked to both the opposition and the government.

    “This government is cowardly, incompetent and good for nothing,” said Mulayam Singh Yadav, an important regional leader allied with the ruling coalition. Arun Jaitley, a leading opposition politician, said in Parliament on Thursday, “You may have some security options, you may have some diplomatic options, but being clueless is not an option.”

    In China, a foreign ministry spokeswoman denied that Chinese troops had crossed into Indian territory and said the dispute would be resolved peacefully and through appropriate channels.

    “I would also like to point out that China and India are neighbors and their borders haven’t been demarcated,” said the spokeswoman, Hua Chunying, at a news conference last week in Beijing. “As such, it is difficult to avoid border disputes.”

    On Thursday, the online edition of People’s Daily ran an editorial that urged China to continue friendly relations with India, but said China should not “indulge” India’s “bad habits,” and in particular the “lies” of the Indian news media.

    Though Indian and Chinese politicians have not described the reasons for the dispute, Indian press reports have stated that Chinese officials have demanded the Indian authorities demolish some newly constructed bunkers and reduce patrols in the area.

    As its economic might has grown, China has become increasingly assertive in its territorial claims across Asia. In disputes with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines, among others, China’s claims revolve around islands or sea lanes that are potentially rich in oil and gas deposits. What puzzles Indian analysts is that China has chosen to squabble over a barren moonscape frequented only by nomadic cattle herders.

    “It’s an inexplicable provocation,” said Gen. Vasantha R. Raghavan, a former top Indian military commander who once commanded the region in dispute. “There is something happening inside China which is making the military act in an irrational manner.”

    Trade between China and India is growing rapidly, Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid of India is expected to visit Beijing next week, and Prime Minister Li Keqiang of China is scheduled to visit India three weeks later on his first official trip abroad since taking office in March. Both Indian and Chinese officials have stressed that relations remain friendly, and Indian officials say that Mr. Khurshid still intends to go to Beijing as planned. But there are growing calls in India for both trips to be canceled.

    General Raghavan said the dispute was likely to accelerate improving military ties between India and the United States — a development that is not likely to be welcomed by China.

    M. Taylor Fravel, a professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an expert on China’s border issues, said that China might be responding to local concerns about Indian military construction in the disputed area. But he said information about the incursion was sketchy.

    The dispute is playing out hundreds of miles from what has long been seen as the most contested area between the countries — a stretch of land that separates Tibet, occupied for decades by China, and the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh. Chinese soldiers crossed that part of the border during the 1962 war and took over a swath of Arunachal Pradesh, including the culturally Tibetan area known as Tawang, before decamping and returning to China. In 2009, China became more vocal in its claims to parts of Arunachal Pradesh.

    The latest spat between India and China is bound to resolve itself this year, one way or another. In six months, snow and bitterly cold weather will make the Chinese encampment very difficult, if not impossible, to maintain.

    Gardiner Harris reported from New Delhi, and Edward Wong from Beijing and Hangzhou, China. Hari Kumar contributed reporting from New Delhi. Sue-Lin Wong contributed research from Beijing.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/world/asia/where-china-meets-india-push-comes-to-shove.html
     
  8. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    I think UPA is waiting for this. :disagree:
     
  9. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    Army takes a step back in Ladakh

    The army has stopped patrolling the eastern Ladakh areas beyond the site where Chinese troops have taken up positions — 19km into Indian territory — to avoid escalating the stand-off.

    [​IMG]

    Prior to the Chinese incursion of April 15 soldiers would carry out weekly surveillance on foot, according to army sources.

    It is not clear when Indian troops last patrolled the area before Chinese pitched tents and set up a base in the Daulat Beg Oldie sector, bringing matters to a head between the two countries.

    It is understood that the government may have advised the army not to comb the sector so that diplomatic efforts are not hampered.
    “As of now, there are no plans to launch patrols behind the Chinese positions. Patrolling right up to our perception of the line of actual control may be seen as provocative,” a source said.

    Launching armed patrols from other directions beyond the faceoff site is likely to send out a message that the Indian Army plans to cut off the supply lines of the Chinese troops — one of the options that army has suggested to the government to counter the Chinese aggression.

    Army chief General Bikram Singh had on Wednesday briefed the government on the ground situation.

    The chief gave the government a slew of options to deal with the Chinese incursion, including a proposal to increase troop levels.

    Three brigadier-level flag meetings between the two sides have failed to find a solution to the end the 17-day impasse.

    There's growing suspicion within the military establishment that the intruding Chinese soldiers will hold on to the Indian territory for quite some time, if not permanently.

    China has a tendency to ratchet up the border dispute at frequent intervals, especially before important high-level visits. The latest incursion is timed weeks ahead of Chinese premier Li Keqiang's upcoming visit to India.

    Army takes a step back in Ladakh - Hindustan Times
     
  10. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    now army to playing traitors role... is there no one left to defend this nation.. is Indians hate India so much:frust:
     
  11. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    IA I think is pissing in it's pants..........that is why they r sitting comfortably, watching the chinese........... had they had enough josh left in them, they wud have forced the govt. into some kind of action......

    Bull$h!t army......only shows its bravery against weak Pakistan....
     
  12. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The Govt is holding back the IA from patrolling the LAC, cutting off supplies and pushig back these bandits on our land. Media misreports as usual, with half truths. Never let media reports suspect the IA commitment. Not good!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
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  13. Virajith

    Virajith Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    It's not IA It's GoI(UPA) with it's weak foreign policy giving our enemies upperhand over IA
     
  14. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Our army has been held back by the political leadership on several occasions when decisive steps should have been taken. When someone intrudes into your territory, you dont just let them walk all over you. You kick the shit out of them and send them packing, otherwise they will do the same thing again and again. This is what is happening exactly.

    2004 parliament attacks, we did nothing. 26/11 we did nothing. Beheading of our jawan, we did nothing, ladakh incursion, we did......guess.....yes thats right, NOTHING!

    This trend will carry on till we get a patriotic govt. with balls which unfortunately seems like a fantasy for now.
     
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  15. Rock n Rolla

    Rock n Rolla Lt. Colonel STAR MEMBER

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    The dialogue from A Wednesday comes to mind, "Hum To Tumhe Isi Tarah Marenge, Tum Kya Kar Loge??".
     
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