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Chinese troops transgress Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction sector in Doka La / Dokalam Area

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by Agent_47, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Karnan

    Karnan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Is it only for Israeli F-35's or for all the F-35's including USA's?
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    All of them. F-35 can do mid air refuelling using drogue and boom both.
    upload_2017-7-6_21-17-4.png

    upload_2017-7-6_21-19-24.png
     
  3. Karnan

    Karnan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Is it wise to seperate Xinjiang (if that's even possible in the first place) from China? Because even if China is bad, they do have the control over that region and population. Without China, it can easily fall into the wrong hands like ISIS. I am afraid that, without the Chinese control that region will turn out to be the like of Iraq without Saddam and Libya without Gaddafi.
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It makes no difference to us. When you are fighting an enemy, the enemy of the enemy is always a friend.
     
    Sam_ likes this.
  5. Karnan

    Karnan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Except the fact that unlike Iraq or Libya, Xinjiang is in our neighbourhood. I don't think it will be in our good interest to have a terrorist breeding ground in our neighbourhood. We suffered a lot with just one Pakistan. Should we repeat that with another one. I think our war planners have to think long term about a free Xinjiang, even if it's good for winning the inevitable war.
     
  6. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistanis are real CHUTIYAS they can't see how world geopolitical Jigsaw Puzzle is coming into place to take out all terrorist nations like North Korea, Pakistan and even China.

    The world is already seeing first phase in Middle east where muslims are killing muslims. The whole middle east is gone Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine all gone, next in line is Iran & Pakistan and even Qatar. If US attacks North Korea which it will very soon China will run there to save its own ASS and Pakistan will be decimated by India & Israel combo.

    Trump says US mulling 'very severe' response to North Korea missile test
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ry-force-against-north-korea-says-nikki-haley
     
  7. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Indian military power only 1/3 of China, the gap between China and India in 2017 is much bigger than in 1962.

    http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-07-06/doc-ifyhweua4149693.shtml

    In 1962

    India's nominal GDP was US$ 429 billion and China's nominal GDP was US$ 472 billion . India's nominal GDP was 90.9% of China's nominal GDP

    India's GDP per capita was US$ 92 and China's GDP per capita was US$ 70 . India's GDP per capita was 131.4% of China's GDP per capita

    In 2016

    India's nominal GDP was US$ 2.1 trillion, and China's nominal GDP was US$ 11 trillion. India's nominal GDP was 19.1% of China's nominal GDP

    India's GDP per capita was US$1820 and China's GDP per capita was US$8865 . India's GDP per capita was 20.5%% of China's GDP per capita

    China's military spending in 2015 was US $ 145.8 billion, India's military spending in 2015 was US $ 48 billion

    As for the above figure , all the Indians should feel shame.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In 1962, the gap between China and India was very small, but Chinese army still beat the Indian easily, taught them a lesson which the Indian never forget.

    In 2017, the gap between China and India is so huge that China can send the whole India into stone age in minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Difference between American Economy and Vietnamese Economy was much bigger than this at the time of US-Vietnam war add to that US had nuclear weapons. Did that deter Vietnam from fighting US? or Were they afraid? They suffered but US suffered too.

    In case of India China the gap in Nominal Economy is huge but in terms of PPP not much. Add to the fact India too is De Facto Nuclear State. We may suffer but Chinese too wont remain Unscathed. And war is fought not by Economy but by WILL to Fight and VALOR and DETERMINATION which Indians and Indian Army don't Lack In.

    All these media rants won't work in actual war.
     
    Sam_, Karnan and Dagger like this.
  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    You think GDP is what defines hard power of a country? Then why is it US still failing to neutralize Taliban from Afghanistan ? or why did it lose in Vietnam ? Why did once great civilizations india and china, who had half of the wealth of the world during 17th century was destroyed by west?

    In 1971 GDP per capita of pakistan was US $177 while indian was US $120. Still we broke the country in to two and humiliated them.

    A big economy like china should be ashamed of bullying smaller nations like bhutan,vietnam and sri lanka. "Great power comes with great responsibility"!
     
  10. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What exactly are you gonna do with this data on border. Send your soldiers to throw currency wads at us ?

    Soldiers fight on border not per capita GDP.
     
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    China can’t find a single post-1962 document to support its Bhutan border claim

    Back in the 1950s, Chinese troops marched in and took control of Tibet in what the then newly founded Communist government called a “peaceful liberation.” After an uprising against the Communist rule was thwarted, the Dalai Lama, Tibet’s Buddhist spiritual leader, fled into exile in India, where he lives to the present day.

    Tensions between India and China rose after the Tibet episode, culminating in a war over the border in 1962, which ended in India’s defeat. Days of clashes also took place in 1967. Since then, although border incursions still occur from time to time, the two Asian giants have mostly showed military restraint and engaged in diplomatic solutions to settle border disputes.

    Suddenly now, India and China seem to be on the brink of a war.

    For over a month, the two nations have been involved in a stand-off in the Doklam plateau, which is currently disputed between China and Bhutan, a close Indian ally. The plateau, also known as Donglang in Chinese, lies at the junction of India, Bhutan, and China, near the northeastern Indian state of Sikkim. Doklam is strategically importantdue to its adjacency to the Siliguri Corridor, the so-called “chicken’s neck” connecting India’s seven northeastern states to its mainland.

    [​IMG]
    (via Google Maps)
    The stand-off began in June when India opposed China’s attempt to build a road over the Doklam plains. Delhi says it intervened on behalf of Bhutan, while Beijing accuses India of trespassing in its territory. Bhutan, for its part, says China’s road-building is a violation of a 1998 agreement that calls on both sides to maintain the status quo in the contested area.

    From Beijing’s perspective, its claim to the Doklam region is well supported by a series of documents, which the Chinese foreign ministry has been citing in press conferences in the past few days. All of the documents, though, date back to the years before the 1962 India-China War—and at least some of Beijing’s interpretations of them could be misleading.

    The Sino-British convention in 1890
    In a regular briefing on June 29, the Chinese foreign ministry pointed to an 1890 border agreement between Britain and China for the first time to support its Doklam claim. Article I of the Sikkim-Tibet Convention, signed on March 17, 1890, by Henry Petty-Fitzmaurice, then British Viceroy of India, and Sheng Tai, the Qing dynasty’s “Imperial Associate Resident” in Tibet, states:

    The boundary of Sikkim and Tibet shall be the crest of the mountain range separating the waters flowing into the Sikkim Teesta and its affluents from the waters flowing into the Tibetan Mochu and northwards into other rivers of Tibet. The line commences at Mount Gipmochi on the Bhutan frontier, and follows the above-mentioned water-parting to the point where it meets Nipal territory.

    Citing this text, Doklam falls to the Chinese side of the water-parting, said foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang, who then displayed a photo allegedly showing that a group of Indian soldiers and vehicles had overstepped the crest into Chinese territory on June 18.

    The next day, Lu added some human context to the territorial claim. He said: “Before the 1960s, if border inhabitants of Bhutan wanted to herd in Doklam, they needed the consent of the Chinese side and had to pay the grass tax to China. Nowadays the Tibet Archives still retain some receipts of the grass tax.”

    Nehru’s letters in 1959
    Beijing went on to state that leaders of independent India endorsed the British-era territorial understanding. On July 3, spokesman Geng Shuang pointed to two 1959 letters from then Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru to his Chinese counterpart Zhou Enlai regarding Sikkim’s border with China. “There is no dispute over the boundary between Sikkim and Tibet, China,” Geng quoted Nehru as saying in one letter written on Sept. 26, 1959.

    But Nehru’s letter seems not to refer to the Sikkim-Bhutan stretch that is in dispute today. According to the Hindustan Times, which has viewed the Sept. 26 letter, Nehru wrote:

    This Convention of 1890 also defined the boundary between Sikkim and Tibet; and the boundary was later, in 1895, demarcated. There is thus no dispute regarding the boundary of Sikkim with the Tibet region. This clearly refers to northern Sikkim and not to the tri-junction which needed to be discussed with Bhutan and Sikkim and which is today the contentious area. And once more, let us not forget that the 1890 Treaty was an unequal treaty as Tibet, Sikkim and Bhutan were not involved.

    The term “unequal treaty” is often used by China to refer to treaties in its own history with Western powers.

    The Hindustan Times also reported that, in the same letter, Nehru said that “Chinese maps show sizeable areas of Bhutan as part of Tibet,” and that “the rectification of errors in Chinese maps regarding the boundary of Bhutan with Tibet is therefore a matter which has to be discussed along with the boundary of India with the Tibet region of China in the same sector.” One journalist referred these lines to Geng on July 5, and the spokesman said he would need to verify them.

    A 1960 note from India’s embassy in China
    The same day, Geng offered additional material to support Beijing’s assertion that India recognizes the 1890 treaty:

    In the note it sent to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on February 12, 1960, the Indian Embassy in China said, “the Government of India welcomes the explanation given in the Chinese note relating to the boundary with Sikkim and Bhutan on the one side and Tibet on the other. The note states that the boundary between Sikkim and Tibet of China has long been formally delimited, and that there is neither any discrepancy on the maps nor dispute in practice. The Government of India would like to add that this boundary has also been demarcated on the ground.” These contents in that note were all written down in black and white.

    Geng did not clarify whether that was the full text of the note.

    Over China’s many briefings on this issue, the note above has been the most recent document it cited in support of the idea that India has acknowledged China’s Doklam/Donglang jurisdiction. That might be because relations were frosty for decades after the 1962 war.

    It was only after then Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi paid a visit to China in 1988 that the two nations started their formal boundary talks in recent history, and then signed a series of border agreements. Some of the most contentious issues between them are still pending resolution.

    “Do you have any post-1962 document which proves that India recognizes Doklam as part of China’s territory?” one journalist asked Geng during the July 5 briefing. The spokesman dodged the question.
    https://qz.com/1022343/china-cant-f...rom-india-to-support-its-bhutan-border-claim/
     
  12. defc0n

    defc0n 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    China's No to Xi-Modi Meet, Says 'Atmosphere Not Right'

    A Chinese Foreign Ministry official said the "atmosphere" is not conducive for a bilateral meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Hamburg, amid a standoff between the armies of the two countries in the Sikkim section.


    [​IMG]
    File photo of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the SCO Summit in Astana. (Image: PTI)

    Beijing: China has said the "atmosphere" is "not right" for a bilateral meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Hamburg, amid a standoff between the armies of the two countries in the Sikkim section.

    "The atmosphere is not right for a bilateral meeting between President Xi and Prime Minister Modi," PTI quoted a Chinese Foreign Ministry official said ahead of the G20 Summit in the German city of Hamburg from on Friday.



    China and India have been engaged in a standoff in the Dokalam area near the Bhutan tri-junction for past 19 days after a Chinese Army's construction party attempted to build a road. Doka La is the Indian name for the region which Bhutan recognises as Dokalam, while China claims it as part of its Donglang region.

    Both sides have never officially confirmed that a meeting was to take place, but reports earlier said Modi and Xi may meet on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Hamburg. Modi arrives in Hamburg after wrapping up a three-day tour of Israel.

    Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Geng Shuang expressed hope that "India can immediately withdraw the border troops to the Indian side of the boundary". "I think this is the pre-condition for any meaningful peace talks between the two sides," he said.

    [​IMG]

    Geng, however, said the BRICS leaders meeting which will be attended by Modi and Xi will take place on the sidelines of the summit on Friday.

    Earlier on Thursday, the state-run Global Times took anti-India rhetoric to a new level, calling for "pro-independence" appeals in Sikkim. The daily said creating trouble for India in Sikkim and neighbouring Bhutan was one of the "tools" to deter New Delhi from "provocations".

    (With PTI inputs)
    http://www.news18.com/news/india/china-calls-off-xi-modi-meet-says-atmosphere-not-right-1453627.html
     
  13. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The American-Vietnam war is about ideology and influence so that US wanted to withdraw from the war as they thought the cost was too much to handle.

    Border war between China and India is another thing, is fighting for territory, and there is no way to retreat until one side has the victory.

    The key point right now is the cost, will China give up the trade surplus with India USD50 billion every year, or much more in the future?

    In 1962, there was very few trading business between the two countries so that the border war has no impact for the business.


    If the cost is too high to afford right now, the best way for China is to maintain the current situation and make the border issue unsolved. By the mean time, China still make trade surplus with India USD50 billion every year or more. Until one day, China become the ruling superpower in the world, and then the border issue will not become a problem for China anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  14. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    In 2017 China is so huge that its steals the land of tiny neighbor like stone age robber.

    Not today
     
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  15. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    So you think India wont rise?

    India remain 2 tn dollar economy in 2020? Same in 2025? And same in 2050? And until one day, we still be 2 tn economy while we still discussing we should buy Rafale or not?
     

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