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Chinese troops transgress Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction sector in Doka La / Dokalam Area

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by Agent_47, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Why China needs a history lesson on the 1890 Convention
    By Claude Arpi






    India has won a battle on the ridge in western Bhutan by not allowing China to change the status quo and build a strategic road near the trijunction between Sikkim, Tibet and Bhutan.

    But Delhi has lost other battles.

    In 2003, China's Central Military Commission approved the concept of 'Three Warfares': one, the coordinated use of strategic psychological operations; two, overt and covert media manipulation; and three, legal warfare designed to manipulate strategies, defence policies, and perceptions of target audiences abroad.

    [​IMG]

    +4
    An Indian soldier and a Chinese soldier remove barbed wire on the border fence at Nathu La to allow commanders of both sides to meet for a flag meeting

    Standoff

    While some in India are satisfied with preventing the construction of the road, the other aspects of the standoff should be looked into (and indeed India does have strong legal and historical arguments).

    For example, Delhi has been unable to explain to the Indian public the background about the Chinese 'trick' regarding the 1890 Convention repeatedly quoted by the Chinese authorities.

    The spokesperson of the Chinese ministry of foreign affairs in Beijing vociferously managed to convince many that it was a valid treaty.

    However, the fact that the main stakeholders, Tibet and Sikkim (and Bhutan for the trijunction), were not even consulted, made it an 'Imperial Treaty' with no validity (in any case, the survey of the trijunction was done several decades after the agreement was signed; so China can't justify 'fixing' the trijunction by quoting this treaty).

    In Tibet: a Political History, Tibetan politician and historian Tsepon WD Shakabpa explained: 'In 1890 a convention was drawn up in Calcutta… without consulting the government of Tibet.

    [​IMG]

    +4
    The ongoing stand-off between India and China at the Doklam plateau was triggered by a Chinese manoeuvre on the night of June 8

    'The first article of the convention agreement defined the (northern) boundary between Tibet and Sikkim, and the second article recognised a British protectorate over Sikkim.'

    Three years later, the trade regulations about increasing the trade facilities across the Sikkim-Tibet frontier were discussed: 'Again, the provisions of that agreement could not be enforced because Tibet had not been a party to the negotiations,' says Shakabpa.

    The Convention of 1890 and the Trade Regulations of 1893 proved to be of no use to the British as Tibet never recognised them; this eventually led London to directly 'deal' with Lhasa and send the Younghusband expedition to Lhasa in 1904 and open the doors to organise the Tripartite Simla Convention in 1914, with British India, Tibet and China sitting on equal footing.

    Today, Beijing speaks of 'renegotiating' the 1890 Convention; it would imply that the treaties signed with the Tibetans, particularly the Simla Convention and the border agreement (defining the McMahon Line) in 1914, would be scrapped and India would have no defined border with Tibet in the Northeast.

    The Chinese have tried similar tricks earlier. One factor which has led to losing the battle of information is the lack of a Historical Division in the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA).

    In the early years after Independence, the Nehru government established a historical division with S Gopal (President Radhakrishan's son) as its first head.

    [​IMG]

    +4
    Does the Global Times reflect Beijing's official policy?

    Essays

    Shivshankar Menon, the former foreign secretary and national security advisor, in a book review of Gopal's Collected Essays recollects: 'For reasons I find incredible and incomprehensible the Historical Division was wound up by MEA in the nineties… Some of our present difficulties may indeed be due to a lack of memory.'

    Menon mentions the decision of the government of the doubling of MEA posts approved by the Cabinet in 2008 and says that he hopes that '(it) will be used to revive the ministry's memory and Historical Division.'

    The former top Indian diplomat adds: 'As head of MEA's historical division from 1954 to 1966, Gopal led the Division's work not just on diplomatic history but on the intersection of policy and history, making significant contributions to both.' An interesting case in point is the 1960 negotiation of the 'officials'.

    In April 1960, Nehru and Zhou Enlai, the Chinese Premier, had several meetings: 'The talks, however, did not resolve the differences that had arisen and the two Prime Ministers decided that officials of the two governments should examine the factual materials in the possession of the two governments in support of their stands,' said a joint communiqué.

    Meetings

    Subsequently five rounds of talks were held between officials of India and China; the Indian side was headed by JS Mehta, director, China Division, and Gopal, the then Director of MEA's Historical Division.

    The historian was assisted by knowledgeable colleagues such as TS Murthy, G Narayana Rao and K Gopalachari.

    The first two meetings were held in Peking, in late June and late July 1960; the next two in New Delhi, in late August and late September 1960, and the last in Rangoon in early December 1960.

    The outcome is the Report of the Officials, still today a reference for any study on the Tibet-Indian border. The border issue could probably have been sorted out at that time.

    [​IMG]

    +4
    The standoff near the Doklam plateau at the trijunction between India, Bhutan and China is now in its second month (file pic)

    Ironically, the Indian point of view was so well documented (by the historical division) that the MPs were in no mood to agree to a compromise solution; India and China probably lost a chance to solve the dispute.

    Many examples of the usefulness of the Historical Division could be cited. Incidentally in 1960, the Chinese refused to discuss Tibet's border with Sikkim and Bhutan; Beijing had probably no clue where the trijunction was.

    The point remains that a strong Historical Division in the MEA is a crying need today, like it was in the past.

    When the time comes to draw lessons from the present confrontation, let us hope that the ministry realises that it is a worthwhile investment, even if it has to be 'outsourced' outside the service.

    The writer is an expert on Tibet and China



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...ory-lesson-1890-convention.html#ixzz4qq3yCAVb
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  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    China's fires older DF-4 ICBM Missile designed to strike Indian targets
    Saturday, August 26, 2017 By: The Diplomat [​IMG]


    On Wednesday, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Rocket Force (PLARF) carried out a flight test of a Dong Feng 4 (DF-4; known by the United States as the CSS-3) intercontinental-range ballistic missile, a U.S. government source with knowledge of China’s strategic weapons programs told The Diplomat.

    The test was carried out from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center, a common satellite and ballistic missile launch site, which is also known by the U.S. intelligence community as the Wuzhai Missile and Space Test Centre. The site is in China’s Shanxi province.

    The test of a DF-4 is notable since the missile is China’s oldest intercontinental-range system, with an estimated range of 5,500 to 7,000 kilometers — insufficient to strike targets in the continental United States apart from Alaska. The missile is a two-stage, liquid propellant missile that was first deployed in the mid-1970s. Today, few DF-4s are thought to be deployed, with the PLARF primarily relying on the DF-5 for intercontinental-range targeting.

    It’s unclear if Wednesday’s launch featured a DF-4 based in a silo or in the more usual rollout launch configuration, where the missile would exit a hardened basing site before being erected, fueled, and launched.

    Given that the DF-4 is no longer a primary component of the PLARF’s targeting, it’s also unclear what specific purpose Wednesday’s test was intended to serve. China has conducted multiple ballistic missile launches recently, but has mostly focused on its newer intermediate-range ballistic missiles, solid fuel missiles, and long-range ground-launched cruise missiles.

    Wednesday’s test does suggest that China continues to rely on the DF-4 for certain targeting scenarios. While the missiles are aging and few are thought to remain operational, the DF-4 could serve as an important strike platform against targets in India, for example. (The PLARF’s newer, more advanced systems are likely assigned to U.S. targets.)

    If there was a signaling motive behind Wednesday’s flight test, it could have been meant for India. For more than two months now, Chinese and Indian troops have been locked in a tense standoff over a piece of territory disputed between Bhutan and China in the Himalayas. Over these months, Chinese rhetoric has grown increasingly strident, with state-run media threatening conflict.

    While the prospect of escalation does not appear to be imminent, a DF-4 launch would serve as a reminder of the nuclear stakes that will loom over any future India-China conflict.
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/C...sile-designed-to-strike-Indian-targets-283895

    I suppose this is the best time for a complete series of tests, Agni-4/5, K-4/5, MIRV. THis is the god send opportunity as no one will question India's test seeing Chinese threats.......

    @Hellfire @vstol jockey @randomradio @PARIKRAMA @Agent_47 @sangos
     
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  3. enquencher

    enquencher FULL MEMBER

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    Agni series yes..but i still doubt indias mirv capablity.
    But still learned members here can shed light on that
     
  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    We have MIRV capabilities from Agni-3 itself, from 2007-09........... India (ISRO) is regularly launching multiple satellites in one go, same technology is used for MIRV so where's the doubt?
     
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  5. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Chinese shoes packed in Tricolour boxes invite fury in Uttarakhand's Almora
    Saturday, August 26, 2017 By: Web India 123 Source Link: CLICK HERE
    [​IMG]

    Amid a tense standoff between India and China at Doklam, Chinese shoes packed in Tricolour boxes drew wrath in Uttarakhand's Almora.

    The local shopkeepers in Uttarakhand's Almora informed the police that they had been delivered shoes in boxes bearing the Tricolour, allegedly from China following which police have started investigation.

    Almora Senior Superintendent of Police P. Renuka Devi said putting the shoes in boxes with the national flag was an insult to the Tricolour.

    The boxes have the Tricolour on top and the base carries some letters in Mandarin, police said, triggering speculation among locals that the move was aimed at humiliating Indians.

    Renuka Devi said putting the shoes in boxes with the national flag was an insult to the Tricolour and that they were investigating the matter.

    Udham Singh Nagar Senior Superintendent of Police Sadanand Date said the police questioned the owner of Tammana Traders in Rudrapur, who said that he bought the shoes from a distributor in Delhi and did not know their place of origin.

    "We would be questioning the dealer in New Delhi to ascertain the origin of these shoes", said the SSP.

    The case has been filed by the shopkeeper Bishan Bora against the shoe supplier of Rudrapur. Bora claimed as soon as he opened the consignment, he found only seven shoe pair in proper box and rest of the pairs came in the Tricolour box.

    "I received the goods on Thursday and when I opened the bags, I was shocked. I called the police, sensing something wrong," said Bora, who filed the initial complaint.

    http://www.defencenews.in/article/C...xes-invite-fury-in-Uttarakhands-Almora-283890

    Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) district president of Almora Lalit Latwal asserted the administration swung into action after he intervened.

    "As soon I received information about the consignment, I immediately requested administration to forfeit the boxes and act against those who are involved in insulting Indian flag. It looks like a bigger conspiracy. The party workers will keep an eye on the case until those culprits are not arrested" Latwal said.
     
  6. defc0n

    defc0n 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Chinese always find innovative ways to insult!
    Or, wait, it's China, are these copied too?
     
  7. defc0n

    defc0n 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Theoretically true, but I don't think the satellites need re-entry!
    And India so far didn't test any MIRV. Even if they did, it's not known publicly.
    Initially, it was thought that MIRV will be tested on A5, but during all the test only a single warhead was used.

    Correct me if I am wrong here.
     
  8. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Actually, are Chinese Idiots to supply the Shoes with the Packing in Boxes like this. Infacts, the shoes are supplied in the Carton, and latter on the boxes are locally manufactured and packed. So need to see the picture clearly before jumping into the conclusion.
     
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  9. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I have much better way to insult Lizard, make dustbins with Chinese Flags on it and market it across the world.
     
  10. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    red bins with a few yellow stars. Nice :devilwork:
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    we can actually market toilet papers with chinese flag on it.
     
  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    :rofl::rofl:
     
  13. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  14. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Doklam-like incidents may increase, can’t take it easy: Army chief Bipin Rawat
    Army chief Bipin Rawat said, “The recent standoff in the Doklam plateau by the Chinese side attempting to change the status quo, are issues which we need to be wary about and I think such kind of incidents are likely to increase in the future.”


    [​IMG]Army chief General Bipin Rawat in Pune on Saturday. (Source: Express photo by Sandip Daundkar)

    CHIEF of Army Staff General Bipin Rawat on Saturday said incidents like the ongoing Doklam standoff between Indian and Chinese troops along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) were likely to “increase in the future” with China “attempting to change the status quo between the two countries”.

    Saying that the Chinese armed forces had made “significant progress in capabilities for force mobilisation… and sustenance of operations, particularly in the Tibet Autonomous Region of China”, Rawat said, “The recent standoff in the Doklam plateau by the Chinese side attempting to change the status quo, are issues which we need to be wary about and I think such kind of incidents are likely to increase in the future.”

    However, the Army chief also said there were “joint mechanisms” to address such situations. “Pockets of disputes and contested claims to territory continue to exist between our two nations. These are due to differing perceptions on the alignment of the LAC. Transgressions along LAC do happen. And sometimes these do lead to some kind of misunderstanding between forward troops deployed along the LAC. However, we do have joint mechanisms in place…” He was speaking on the topic ‘India’s Challenges in the Current Geo-Strategic Construct’ at the General BC Joshi Memorial Lecture at the Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics in Pune.

    Later, during an interaction with the media on the sidelines of the event, when he was asked to elaborate on why he said Doklam-like incidents were “likely to increase”, he replied, “What I am trying to say is we should not be complacent. Let us say this standoff gets resolved, our troops on the border should not think it cannot happen again; it can happen in another sector. It is always better to be prepared and be alert rather than think that this will not happen again. So my message to troops is, do not let your guard down.”

    He also said that China was yet to confirm its participation in an annual joint military exercise. “We do have joint exercises with China that have been conducted over the past several years, but this year, the confirmation from the Chinese side is awaited,” he said, adding, “But on the other hand, diplomacy between the two countries and the flag meetings do continue.”


    On Pakistan, Rawat said, “Pakistan continues to wage a proxy war in Jammu and Kashmir. The increasing presence of transnational actors in Pakistan with fundamentalist ideologies is a matter of grave concern… This can lead to the possibility of Pakistan being a conduit for the eastward spread of fundamentalists and Islamic State ideology.”

    As per tradition, the Gen B C Joshi Memorial lecture is delivered by a serving service chief. The lecture was organised by the department of defence and strategic studies of Savitribai Phule Pune University and the Southern Command Headquarters.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-easy-army-chief-general-bipin-rawat-4815438/

     
  15. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    India-China reach consensus to withdraw troops expeditiously from Doklam trijunction.
     
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