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Debate: Saffron India - just a political color, a chance for resurgence or dawn of new chaos?

Discussion in 'Defence Analysis' started by PARIKRAMA, Mar 13, 2017.

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Saffron India -

  1. just a political color

    20.0%
  2. a chance for resurgence

    46.7%
  3. dawn of new chaos

    13.3%
  4. None of the above

    20.0%
  1. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Debate series

    Debate: Saffron India - just a political color, a chance for resurgence or dawn of new chaos?

    Today is Holi, a festival of colors celebrated across India.. yet holi came early couple of days back..

    In the latest state elections , the result of which has delivered an overwhelming mandate in the state of Uttar Pradesh, a chance to form government in 4 out of 5 states that had elections and the whole country color changed like this....

    IMG-20170312-WA0011.jpg

    As you can see the color of the whole country's citizens mandate has brought a big change..

    With such an overwhelming mandate pan India and good grip over the future Rajya Sabha seats as well, will this bring out a change to the overall Central Government work?

    A. Is the decline of political parties at national level has reached such a position that other than BJP there is no credible solution?
    • Is this good for a democracy like India?
    • Dearth of choice about potential PM candidate in other parties - does this give free run to saffron India theme for coming years and potentially decades?
    • What about constructive opposition parties? With mandates so heavily to one party, theme and promises, who will act as policeman to guard against irregularities and also change the bills/discussions in parliament to suit local needs instead of a brute force approval due to majority which might not consider all voice and opinions..

    B. Will we see a resurgent India?
    • One cruising towards economic development with removal of potential roadblocks..
    • will we leapfrog and rocket towards the defence modernisation?
    • Will we see consolidation of all social classes coming together to build India ?
    • Will we pass important bills like GST and LAB , etc etc and run towards double digit GDP growth?

    With great power comes greater responsibility..

    And PM Modi in his latest speech spoke the following words..



      • With these victories, we must be humble.
      • Power is not about posts, it is about the opportunity to serve.
      • Development is always a central issue during every election. But earlier, parties were scared to fight elections on development.
      • In a democracy, elections are about making governments. But it is also an occasion for creating awareness.
      • We may make mistakes, but our intent will never be wrong
      • We have never got anything for free or easily. And we do not have any regrets.
      • The poor are saying, 'I want to progress and I seek the opportunity from you'. This is the foundation of a New India.
      • The strength of the poor and the aspirations of the middle class will take India to new heights.
      • Sarkar is made with Bahutmat (majority) but runs through Sarvamat (consensus)- ours is a government of everyone.
    Source- http://m.ndtv.com/india-news/power-...unity-to-serve-pm-modis-top-10-quotes-1668954

    Now PM Modi speech seems to indicate that past mistakes of going over the top right wing agenda may not be to his liking.. so it brings to third part of this debate..

    C. Will the saffron India lead to chaos in terms of religious intolerance?
    • How will India respond to this?
    • What about sticky topics say like minority development versus vote bank appeasement?
    • Will there be more "ghar waspsi" or forceful conversion?
    • Re writing neutral education books to suit religious narrative?
    • What about touchy sensitive topic like Ayodhya temple?
    • What about Uniform Civil Code? Will that be termed saffron code or will look at constitutional amendment chance to do what should have been done at the time of Independence?
    So many questions.. so many thoughts..

    Opening the floor for this debate..Wish to hear your voices.. your opinions..
     
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  2. Bhoot Pishach

    Bhoot Pishach 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    It was blatant shameless corruption.

    Shameless Muslim Appeasement, our Ex-PM MMS saying "Muslims have first right on all national resources". They even conspired to create "Saffron Terrorism".

    All the regional parties were the product of Cast Politics + Muslim Appeasement, harassing all the other demographics.

    Above all rempant mismanagement and no real vision of growth and development.
     
  3. nair

    nair Die hard Romeo Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    One has to congratulate Modi for this change....... He had senior leaders with in the party who opposed his elevation, even then the "high command" of the BJP was very sure about who they want the leader to be...... Modi is like a modern day CEO, who create the euphoria and force his team to work hard, and that can be seen clearly..... To help Modi and company, INC continued the dynasty route expecting to fool the country further like they did before..... But for that they needed a leader who had little commonsense....... But alas they had "Rahul"........ So the credit should be equally given to sonia for this victory, for her to choose her son as the leader of her party.... It is sad to see the party which ruled this country for 60 years could not nurture a leader....... When modi came to power the popular expectations were

    1) A leader who is going to change the country with his hardwork and vision
    2) A leader who is going to enforce his hindutva ideology and he is going to be the Indian version of Zia......

    Let us elaborate the above points from a common man's perspective for both the sections (let us not put the politically motivated guys away from this)

    The first guy who is either a BJP supporter or a guy who thinks that we did not have a strong leader for a very long time, He want to have a able leader who can take this nation forward, and has vision for poor..... They were not worried about his image (then) or some of them forgot it.....But they were looking for some one who is going to make his life better....
    The second guy is definitely not from BJP, But he has been genuinely worried about a leader who is known to have some hand in the riots, going to take the leadership of the country, his worry is, the leader want to change India to Hindu nation and by doing that he is going to create lot of problem for him and his daily life is going to get affected......

    After about 3 years of this new govt, The second guy seems to have been convinced that his view about the leader was wrong, and he is slowly changing his views towards the first set...... That is what you can see in UP and other states......
     
  4. Bhoot Pishach

    Bhoot Pishach 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Must watch speech of Dr. Subramanian Swamy on political situation of Hindus. Discourse on "Communal Violence Bill"

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
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  5. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    1947 India gained independence from British. 1950 India became Republic.

    The British ruled India through proxy till 2014.

    "Indians" gained real Independence in 2014. And in 2017 "Indians" have created a real Republic for themselves.

    The 67 years of barbarism, psychopathy, deception and kleptocracy will be a thing of the past.

    India under Modi will see four major transformations in real sense

    1. Rule of Law
    2. Governance
    3. Security
    4. Cultural/Historical corrections
     
  6. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Very enlightening. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
     
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  7. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That was the most "secular" thing said by any PM in India. As a Muslims one don't see anything wrong in this sentence( same is true for Reservation ) but this was disastrous thing to say in country like India which is multicultural and multi religious. This theory assumes that majority population are dumb and should be strapped from their fundamental rights of social equality.
    Imagine if "Christians have first right on all national resources" said by Saudi King or Turkish PM. ??
    But we all know how things managed in India.

    Cast+ religious politics was introduced in India by Congress to tackle anti Congress sentiments after emergency.

    Saffron Terror is what the Congress, SP,BSP (in UP) and PAAP (in Goa) are feeling right now:lol::lol::lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  8. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    A. Seems so for the foreseeable future. Even if there was a strong leader in a smaller regional party i would have expected the rise of a coalition to counter BJP 15 years into the future. Kejri is non serious and he will most probably lose Delhi. Rahul is gone. Nitish doesnt have age on his side. Who else is remaining. Mamata ?

    It may be noted, that it hasn't been the BJP rise as much as its one person charisma carrying a party to the pinnacle. As incredulous as it sounds, Its modi that people support. BJP as a party may find greater acceptance on its own, provided a new crop of worth leadership is brought forward.

    a. Such dominance of one party will bring us closer to the likeliness of rule of CCP in China. I don't see it as necessarily a bad thing (if its for a couple of decades), in fact it might actually do us a lot of good with less obstruction in Rajya sabha, and might provide the stomach and willingness to take tough calls.

    b. Personally speaking, if falsehoods propagated by the likes of Irfan Habid and left liberal cabal were to be re looked, I wouldn't mind. Other than that i don't understand what saffron theme is. Saffron for me stands for nationalism and unity. Nehru gandhi gang had a free run for nearly 6 decades, surely we wont do THAT bad!

    c. I again bring the example of CCP in this case. A brute majority is not necessarily a bad thing for the nation in the long term if the intention of the people manning is beyond reproach. Currently its modi only but i am willing to bet a dollar that by the time he retires, NM-AM duo would have nurtured a second line of nationalist leaders to take the legacy forward.
     
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  9. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Failures of the INC created the Bharatiya Janata Party .
    L.K Advani and A.B Vajpayee ,both of them created BJP in 1984 .Because they felt the fate of the Hindus in the so called Republic of India would be same like that in pre independence era.
    It was the first opportunity of the Congress and other mainstream party to change its course.But they wouldnt learn a single lesson .Within 14 years they created first Govt in Centre .Yet the secular parties still follow the same route .What they thinks as some measures to stop the BJP was worst kind of desperate policies that divide this nation on the basis of communal lines .
    In 2004 they won ,so they thought they can fool this nation again and they succeeded in past 10 years .And in 2014 they got the final reward .
    Now the only faultlines they can see in BJP is that they are supposed to be a ' communal party'.Until now it worked but now it seems that wouldnt be the case in future .
    This is not an anti minority party .This is a nationalist party with zero appeasement .That wont made them a communal party but a true secular party .Opposition learn all of this through hardway.

    They still didnt grasp the fact that the new generation needs a modern nation.And it was Modi that responded to their calls .Whether you likes or not ,this PM has a vision , a never ending energy for working for the nation and he will go at any length for the betterment of this nation and will use any drastic measures to keep his promises .
    We all knows that demonetisation was failed at the implementation stage but it was his intention that touches the heart of the people .
    He is a hardworker, even opponents would agree with that fact .He is a workholic .
    BJP also has several factions .PM and majority of the BJP followers are nationalists.But a minority factions are extremists and they are the one that gives priority to Ayodhya ,Babri Masjid etc .
    BJP needs all of their support ,like any other political party they cant provoke them.But they should rein in on them and never allows them to disturb the decorum .I think UP would be in safe hands for now .
     
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  10. Bhoot Pishach

    Bhoot Pishach 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Winning strategy for, congress was core congress voter + muslim, and for other regional parties Strong leader from a dominating Cast + muslim.

    Till now divide Hindus, and appease muslims was the trend. Because nobody thought that Hindu can ever be a united as a force to recon with.

    All were interested in Divided Hindus, because this perfectly fitted in there political agenda.

    First 2014 vindicated what United Hindu Vote can do. And this again vindicated in 2017. Please also take note of Municipal elections of Maharashtra and Odisha in this pattern.

    One thing has surely changed now, and this is what haunting the political parties across the board, what they had done cannot continue anymore, i.e. abuse Hindus and Hinduism and appease & pamper Muslims in the name of Vote Bank.

    The ideological ground on which sickular parties were standing is shaken in just One Day. They are shivering by the basic thought of their ideology, which was their basic pillar of politics i.e. DIVIDE HINDUS, ABUSE HINDUISM AND APPEASE MUSLIMS.

    It will take a long time for Sickular Parties to come to term, that "Hindus also do have a Political Identity". till then they have lost the Political Landscape of India.

    And this is final take away of 2017.
     
  11. Bhoot Pishach

    Bhoot Pishach 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    With due respect sir,

    The BJP was founded on 06-Apr-1980, before this it was called Bhartiya Jana Sangha, which was founded in 1951. After emergency in 1975 Bhartiya Jana Sangha was merged with all other non congressi political parties, and Janta Party was created to counter Congress.

    The BJP is toiling it hard since 1980 to emerge at the political scene of the country. They were reduced to just 2 in 1985 elections which were held after assassination of Indira Gandhi.

    BJP had done Akmata Rath Yatra in 1980 due to this they become known among common public as a political party. And by the end of 1980 they were force to recon with in Gujarat, MP, MH, RJ & UP.

    The Ram Janma Bhoomi Andolan gave them recognition and power which this party is standing till date.

    Just due to Ram Janma Bhoomi Andolan BJP just shot up from 2 in 1985 to 85 seats in 1989, massive increase of 83 seats.

    Hope you understand the rise of United Spectrum of Hindu Voters with BJP, which cannot be denied its dues, by any one, in the name of Sickularism.

    Thanks.
     
  12. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Thank you.
    But what I meant in there was that BJP at its current form was formed during 1984.You said it here ,Ram Janma Bhoomi .Still they have that same priority .

    May be you are right .But they need votes for majority of rational Hindus .They votes for development not for religion .So BJP should do a nice balance approach there
     
  13. Bhoot Pishach

    Bhoot Pishach 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Sir,

    No Muslim as vote bank, voted for BJP. Instead Hindu Voters got united in Muslim majority seats.

    Even TOIlet Paper is acknowledging this fact.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...the-3rd-stood-by-bjp/articleshow/57639878.cms

    Myths of Muslim, Daliit and Jat votes busted

    Every election campaign throws up myths that get busted by the results. But then, the results themselves generate new myths. The recent UP Assembly elections are no exception.

    Analysis of detailed results and comparison to earlier elections show up the truth about three riddles and the myths that pose as their answers: what happened to the Muslim vote? What happened to the Daliit vote? And what happened to the Jat vote?

    Individual votes cannot be tracked, but voting trends in constituencies give an indication of where preferences of communities are heading.

    This can be useful to find answers to knotty sociopolitical questions.

    [​IMG]


    The Muslim Vote

    The campaign saw an intense battle between SP and BSP to win over Muslim votes which make up about 19% of the electorate.

    BJP's resounding victory, even in Muslim concentration areas, has led to speculation that, either the Muslim vote got divided between SP and BSP letting BJP win easily, or that Muslims voted for BJP. Both appear to be erroneous theories.

    SP (29%) and BSP (18%) together got 47% vote in the 59 constituencies in UP where more than a quarter of the voters are Muslim. This is virtually unchanged since 2012 elections, although it went down to 43% in the 2014 Lok Sabha elections.

    So, the Muslim support for the two parties is intact.

    [​IMG]

    The difference this time was that BJP mopped up most of the other votes — getting 39% of total votes.

    This was less than their 43% in 2014 Lok Sabha elections, but still so far ahead of the rivals that they won 39 seats while SP won 17 and BSP ended up with none. SP's 29% vote share in these seats shows that its Muslim support base largely intact.

    The Daliit Vote

    There was a much hyped battle between BJP and BSP to win Daliit votes, especially non-Jatav Daliits. Daliits make up about 21% of the population in UP. Since BSP lost badly in the elections ending up with just 19 seats, there was a view that Daliits voted en masse for BJP.

    Actually, BSP has got 24% votes, down from its 27% in 2012 but up from 23% in 2014 Lok Sabha elections.

    Among the 85 reserved seats in the state, BJP outflanked all other parties by getting 40% of the votes with BSP a distant second at 24%.

    Again, BJP's appeal was across all castes and may have included some Daliit communities too, but BSP's vote share indicates that it is just about retaining its Daliit base while BJP surged ahead.

    The Jat Vote
    One big myth that the elections blew up was that of the
    Jats, a dominant community in western UP, deserting BJP after wholeheartedly supporting them in the previous 2014 election.

    In the 73 seats in Phase 1 of the polls, BJP's vote share increased from a mere 16% in 2012 to 45% in 2017 while RLD, led by Jat leader Ajit Singh, declined from 11% to just 6%. Vote shares of all other parties and even of independent candidates declined.

    Top Comment
    Muslims have not voted for Bjp, it is the Hindu votes which has consolidated! Hindus are fed up with this muslim appeasement by SP, BSP, CONGRESS.. they are feeling unsafe in their own country..all t... Read Moredinesh batheja
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  14. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    My take. None of the above.

    All political parties stand for their core ideology. Never confuse the with the clothes they wear for the moment. BJP is the devil we need.

    UPA 2 took the nation back atleast a decade. CONG has no viable leader. Rahul Gandhi maybe a heir, but he is no leader.

    Everyone loves money, Even the socialists!. Modi for all his Butcher tag, did good for Gujurat. He may or may not have been in the known for the catastrophe that took place. Personally, I believe Modi did. He is a grand task master, he did knew. Perhaps not what is going to happen or how bad it would end up being. I also believe, he regrets that episode now. Without that, he would have the absolute clean image.

    BJP is going by the development tag now. Which is good. If he wants to make inroads in South, he needs that. Hope the brain dead retards in RSS and SS stop with Hindutva/Communal trumps everything shit. It is 2016. Again, we need money now. Everyone loves money.

    This myth that other than Hindus do not vote for BJP is a myth. More educated and working folks vote for BJP now. We need money coming in.

    One more time, Money should be the new color. New Ideology. We have 300~400 million people in poverty.

    One example: In Kerala, some of the BJP candidates are just excellent. I said candidates. Not party. When they win, party says they won. No. They did not.
     
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  15. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Interesting Debate, but I would need a bit of disambiguation

    If BJP represents > SAFFRON/ HINDUTVA, anti Muslim/Religious Minority.

    Then What do other Parties represent.

    Congress> Green/Courrption/Muslim Appeasement , Anti Hindu practices?

    CPI/CPM> RED/Anti Democracy anti National Integrity?

    RJD/JDU> Colorless/Deal with the devil to save it's chair?

    etc.
     
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