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Debate- What should India do in lieu of USA Goodies?

Discussion in 'Defence Analysis' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 17, 2017.

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  1. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    USA Gives
    1. Full localisation of F16s to TASL under MII ( Not an issue subject to approval from IAF )
    2. Access to F35s as and when required on priority basis. ( Not an issue subject to approval from IAF/IN )
    3. Access to Avenger Jet powered Drones and a plan to set up a MII unit associated with say TASL (Access to Predators would be more than welcome with strong emphasis on MII)
    4. Access to different systems and munitions. ( Would be more than welcome provided there are no restriction ON them being used as per India's threat perception)
    5. Technology access (and shared limited) in all other fields military or dual use ( Would be more than welcome provided there are no restriction to them being used as per India's threat perception)
    6. Geo Political push for every Indian story . ( Not an issue, subject to approval from GOI)

    In Return USA Wants
    1. Joint patrolling in South China Sea. ( Not an issue provided, India is allowed to function autonomously, when needed)
    2. Joint patrolling in IOR ( Only under the condition that all US vessels movement will be under IN surveillance & subject to 100% intelligence sharing )
    3. Full Access to A&N for a base and assault unit ( Only under the condition that all US vessels & assets movement will be under IN surveillance & subject to 100% intelligence sharing )
    4. Parking of USA planes in one of the land bases for assaults against WAR on Terror ( Only under the condition that all US ASSETS movement will be under surveillance & subject to 100% intelligence sharing )
    5. Joint action against North Korea ( except military option)
    6. Committing a large force for Afghanistan and having a military pact with Afghanistan ( no indian boots on ground)
    7. Drone strike from Avengers and Predators given to India on terror camps ( Not an issue provided, India is allowed to function autonomously, when needed)
    ALL GIVES SUBJECT TO WRITTEN COMMITMENT FROM THE US TO DE-DENUCLEARIZE PAKISTAN.
     
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  2. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    US can have base in Skardu once it is back in Indian control.Any supplies to Afghanistan can pass through an independent Balochistan
     
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  3. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    If all of this is going to happen, rest assure we will become a USA stooge...
     
  4. Fat Bandit

    Fat Bandit IDF NewBie

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    Unbelievable filth in this thread. If you think India has problems NOW, wait till we formally align with the US.

    Kashmir, naxalites, conversions, corruption, tax evasion, china etc are ALL self created problems. The moment we align with the US all that years of goodwill we have in Asia and world will vanish overnight. China, pakistan, Kashmiris, naxals,hell even goddamn corrupt Indians will always be our bed fellows long after the USA has sucked us dry and left.

    We we really need to do is send the Dalai Lama packing, fix internal security thru development and fighting corruption tooth n nail and move towards a more progressive society by getting rid of regressive cultural Hindu/Indian practices!

    Jesus fucking Christ!
     
  5. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

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    In return for South China and Andaman proposal, India should look for some foothold in Central Asia. This is a sure way to counter both China and Pakistan.
    History tells us material goodies from US are really short time comfort at best, but we should be looking at how to increase Geopolitical reach, which is not possible without Uncle Sam's help.
     
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  6. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There is nothing wrong in getting new friend... But Shouldn't lose sovereignty.

    We our interests overlap we cooperate else , we keep quiet .
     
  7. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    "Full Localization" should mean providing "all" source codes and technology 100% indigenous manufacture of specially those items India has been struggling till now - mainly Engines & AESA Radar

    USA Gives = 6, and In Return USA wants = 7, it is a bit skewed. Adding the 7th point

    7. USA should all out help India recover POK and liberate Sindhudesh, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa from Pakistan, turning the leftover in to Punjabistan. This point should move to the top of the list
     
  8. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    3. Full Access to A&N for a base and assault unit - A big No. Whatever facilities US strategizes to have in A&N, should be proposed to India and after thorough evaluation, India can decide and have the expansion under its full control.

    4. Parking of USA planes in one of the land bases for assaults against WAR on Terror - Again a big No. Let the planes and other assets be transferred under India's command.

    5. Joint action against North Korea - Physically not possible. Nearby allies need to be used for this purpose. Diplomatically, yes.

    6. Committing a large force for Afghanistan and having a military pact with Afghanistan - This can happen only after POK is recovered and Khyber Pakhtunwah is merged with Kashmir as Greater Kashmir. There is a wider boundary with Afghanistan then including the foothills of the Himalayas.
     
  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    U.S. defence firms want control over tech in Make-in-India plan

    U.S. defence firms offering to set up production lines in India to win deals worth billions of dollars want stronger assurances they won't have to part with proprietary technology, according to a business lobby group's letter to India's defence minister.

    These companies are also saying they shouldn't be held liable for defects in products manufactured in collaboration with local partners under Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Make-in-India's drive to build a military industrial base.

    Lockheed Martin and Boeing are both bidding to supply combat jets to India's military, which is running short of hundreds of aircraft as it retires Soviet-era MiG planes, and its own three-decade long effort to produce a domestic jet is hobbled by delays.

    Lockheed has offered to shift its F-16 production line to India from Fort Worth, Texas, and make it the sole factory worldwide if India orders at least 100 single-engine fighters.

    The U.S. firm has picked Tata Advanced Systems as its local partner under the defence ministry's new Strategic Partnership model under which foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) can hold up to a 49 percent stake in a joint venture with an Indian private firm which will hold the majority of shares.

    The US-India Business Council (USIBC) wrote to India's defence minister last month seeking a guarantee that U.S. firms would retain control over sensitive technology - even as joint venture junior partners.

    "Control of proprietary technologies is a major consideration for all companies exploring public and private defence partnerships," the business lobby, which represents 400 firms, said in the Aug. 3 letter, reviewed by Reuters and previously unreported.

    "To allow foreign OEMs to provide the most advanced technologies, the partnership arrangement between an Indian owned 'strategic partner' company and a foreign OEM needs to provide an opportunity for the foreign OEM to retain control over its proprietary technology," it said, noting this wasn't explicit in the policy document.

    TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER

    Technology transfer is at the heart of Modi's drive to build a domestic industrial base and cut a reliance on imports that has made India the world's biggest arms importer in recent years.

    Without full tech transfer in previous arms deals, India's mainly state-run defence factories have largely been left to assemble knock-down kits even for tanks and aircraft produced under license from the foreign maker.

    Modi's advisers have vowed to change that, insisting on transfer of technology so that critical military equipment are designed and manufactured in India.

    Benjamin Schwartz, USIBC's director for defense and aerospace, said the new Indian policy offered a roadmap for establishing partnerships between U.S. and Indian companies, but it raised some questions for the firms.

    He said he was not in a position to name those companies concerned by the Indian policy, but there was a "general desire to see increased clarity" on several aspects, including the control of proprietary technologies.

    QUALITY ISSUES

    The USIBC also opposed a clause in the new rules that held foreign firms jointly responsible for the quality of the platforms provided to the military, saying legal liability is a significant factor in business decisions.

    "We recommend the MoD (Ministry of Defence) affirm that foreign OEMs will not be liable for defects outside their company's control," the USIBC said.

    Lockheed did not respond to a request for comment. Boeing, which is bidding for a separate contract to sell its F/A-18 Super Hornets for India's aircraft carrier fleet, declined to comment on the USIBC letter, but the company's India president, Pratyush Kumar, said there were concerns about Indian private firms' lack of experience in the aerospace sector.

    Only state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd had made planes under license, while some private players were starting from scratch, having never built even an aircraft component. Kumar said he could not find a single example worldwide of a private enterprise with limited experience building out a plane under transfer of technology.

    "Look at Turkey, look at Japan, look at Brazil - look at multiple countries. In all cases there is a fine balancing act of co-opting the capabilities of both public and private enterprise," he said.

    India's defence ministry offered no response to the concerns expressed by the trade lobbying group on the strategic partnership model, which will also apply to building submarines and helicopters as part of a $150 billion modernisation drive.

    But an official, referring to sensitive technology, said the government has made clear in the past that foreign firms can be allowed to increase their stake beyond 49 percent if the technology they bring in is state-of-the art.

    "It can be done on a case-to-case basis," the official said. Mukesh Aghi, president of the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum, said that despite the starting problems, defence manufacturing looked set to be a breakthrough area in ties between India and the United States.

    "It's the next big thing. There is strong support from the (U.S. President Donald) Trump administration to take this forward." (Reporting by Aditya Kalra and Sanjeev Miglani; Editing by Ian Geoghegan)

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/633863/us-defence-firms-want-control.html
     
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  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    So drums have started beating...

    There will be pro Saab and Pro LM/Boeing fanfare...

    And Dassault as usual quietly doing what they do the best.. Make planes, give to IAF and get repeat orders :azn:
     
  11. IAF Fan

    IAF Fan IDF NewBie

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    We should go ahead with further deepening our collaboration with the US because of the below:
    • India’s geo strategic interests align with that of US in view of China.
    • Border disputes with our two neighbors combined with rising security threats posed by both state and non-state actors, calls for stronger strategic partnership with the US.
    • Partnership with the US gives India the security blanket it needs to grow economically.
    • India will get access to some of the critical defence systems from the US.
    • India will get US support for NSG and permanent UNSC membership.
    • As the construction activities pick up in CPEC, with Chinese support, Pakistani’s will be emboldened for adventurism in Kashmir which makes two front situation a realistic possibility. We would need US by our side in such scenario.
    • China’s string of pearls poses real time challenge to India’s strategic interests in the region, to counter which India needs stronger collaboration with the US even in the maritime domain.
    • Most of the points from the “In Return USA Wants” section are in Indian national interest as well IMO.
    @PARIKRAMA
     
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  12. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It is probably first time we are given an opportunity to be a leader on global scale, I would say it will not be wise to let it go wasted.

    It's first time we are hearing more about India and its power on global scale and not Germany, Japan, UK, Switzerland.

    Heck even tiny Turkey projects more power than us and as a result extract something from game.

    We should stop punching way below our weight now and get ready for a role that we deserve.
     
  13. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Rant begin.


    Indians in India are not yet ready for any major roles in world stage.

    India wants to be a leader but acts like a coward.

    Leaders need to think decades ahead. India thinks max 10 years ahead. There are not enough think tanks for us to support this effort. Less talked about our babus. They are happy to be in a sarkari jaab.

    India wants to be taken seriously as a military power. India is not one now. We have age old equipment, colonial officer mentality and a mix of old&new tactics.

    Indian Infra is falling apart and struggling to support the population growth.

    Indian heavy engineering industry is a joke at its best. There are high points yes. But not enough when looking at the graphs. They are not allowed to support the defense. when they are allowed, its with one arm tied behind the back.

    Tax paying middle class, which are few, supports the farmers who won't accept 21st century farming tactics. Instead they depend on Gods and superstitions. Keep paying billions folks.

    West will rule, India needs to carve its place. Things are happening in the Middle East. They need an ally that carries a stick in Asia. If India doesn't want to pick it up, go home. No Singh or No Modi has shown balls to do that. India cannot and will not be allowed to dictate the terms. We just need to get the best we can and accept it.

    How can any? Look at our internal situation. So much to do before picking the stick up.

    Our forefathers advised us to walk before running. We have been walking for long.

    Rant end.
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The US shifted their policy during the Obama years, from the IOR to east Asia and the Pacific, to protect their local interests and the defence of their mainland, because China is their main enemy now.
    That's why their usual NATO partners are only of limited use and why they were searching for new defence partners in Asia.

    India is the most logical choice for them, not because we have the same interests or our military might, but because of geography!
    We are the only country (apart of Russia) that could force China to split their military to a 2nd front. Just as our geographical location in the IOR, gives us the possibility to control crucial sea lanes.

    The US doesn't need us to project force to the east. They need our forces right where they are, at the Indo-Chinese borders and our navy to secure (or block if needed) the sea lanes around India.

    They certainly don't see us as a global power, they don't even want us to be a regional power and still weigh arms sales to us, with the balance of the region in mind:

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/tr...-updates-discussions.8003/page-38#post-573558

    So we are a geographical advantage for them to keep China in check, just as Pakistan was till the US interests shifts to another country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Our participation in Interstellar fleet called Solar Warden and Radiant Guardian. We were once caretakers of this world and solar system.
     
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