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Defence ministry blocks Navy’s ‘unrealistic’ five-year acquisition plan

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Actually the China threat has pushed Navy to ask for extra finance from DM, but still they need to see the fiscal capacity of the country before asking for shiny western weapons.

    1. IAC-2 with improved specs is the way to go as PLAN, our immediate adversary, is also going for ski-jump and 60-65K tonnes.
    2. Increase Scorpene with AIP to 9 or 12 and if possible add some indigenous tech to add more value to the product.
    3. 57 western jets is simply unrealistic at 12-15 billion $.
     
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  2. Masterhunter

    Masterhunter FULL MEMBER

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    This is where u are wrong... We brought 6 scorpenes for 3 Billion dollars in 2005...
    If we order follow on of six more, counting 3% inflation per year for last 12 years. It will cost us close to 4 billion dollars to build six more.
    Even if add AIP it won't cost more than 5 billion.

    Next about rafale, why the hell we need three bases.
    Let INS Dega be only land base with all infrastructure and A&N act as FOB with rotation of fighters.
    Let hansa remain as main base for MIG 29K.
    More so, IAC 1 and 2 will be based at western coast.
    Vikky is good enuf for west coast as of now.
    And yes with rafale. If won't cost more 150M per rafale with weapon and logistics if u follow IAF order. And once made in DRAL it will be a bit cheaper
    60 planes for 9 billion and one base is 1 billion. That is 10 billion. U can add 1 billion for incidentals..
    Still it's 11 billions.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No chance it will cost that much only. We also need a Brahmos VLS. The Scorpene is too small, we need a larger sub.

    The aviation complex has taken 10 years to design and build. It's setup only for the Mig-29K as of now. Any changes requires money.

    We need 3 bases. One on each coast and one for Nicobar. We can't use Nicobar only as a FOB, we need it as a fully fledged base with offensive capabilities.

    Rafale at 150M is without infrastructure. IAF's 2 bases cost 900M euros each. The 2 carriers themselves are bases.
     
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  4. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    :dude:
     
  5. Masterhunter

    Masterhunter FULL MEMBER

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    I said same rafale with weaponary is 150 M pop... I.E. 9 billion for 60 planes.
    A&N already has a full fledged base of IAF as of now.. if IN also build a full fledged base with MRO it's waste of money.
    For next 10 years it better to work as FOB.. with few planes on rotation basis.
    And seriously, we don't need any base on west coast for rafale as we won't be having fourth carrier on west coast for next 15 years.
    Vikky will remain in karwar and will use hansa.
    Vikrant and follow on will remain on east coast and dega can cover both.

    And regarding subs, that is where IN is again at fault, adding VLS will only add cost, better to have tube launched ASM and cut cost for next 6 subs..
    Having VLS is just wasting resources as of now when u have more pressing needs like helos and nuclear subs.

    What great diff will six diesel electric sub with VLS will make that cannot be achieved by subs with tube launched ASM subs with AIP. When u can save 3 Billion . Heck we can even order 4-5 more subs with tube launched ASM.

    Think dear, what is more potent.... 6 VLS diesel electric subs or 11 tube launched capable subs for same fund.

    Heck, 3 Billion dollar thT can be saved just by ordering more scorpenes with AIP can fill all your empty hangars with ASW capable helos on present surface warship, that is more potent force multiplier

    Our defence budget is not endless, Triservices need to utilise it efficiently.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    There is no MRO included in the 900M budget for infrastructure.

    Sources said the "vanilla price" of just the 36 aircraft is about 3.42 billion Euros. The armaments cost about 710 million Euros while Indian specific changes, including integration of Israeli helmet-mounted displays, will cost 1,700 million Euros. Associate supplies for the 36 fighter jets will cost about 1800 million Euros while performance based logistics will cost about 353 million Euros.

    If the IN goes for 57 Rafales based on the price above, then it will cost them 5.4B euro vanilla, 1.1B weapons, 2.7B for base infra and 558M for PBL. That's nearly 10B euros or nearly $12B for the 57 Rafales. Then there's the unknown amount required to upgrade the carrier to handle the Rafales. The Russian price for the aviation complex alone is more than 20% of the cost of the carrier. We have to pay for the development of folding wings also. How is all this 150M a pop? Not to mention, by the time the deal is struck we would be introducing the Rafale F4, and the price for this configuration is obviously going to be higher than the F3R.

    As for Scorpene, it is not going to cost $4B for 6 subs. That's impossible. You haven't considered cost escalation since the time the first deal was signed either.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...l-cost-Rs-2000cr-more/articleshow/4946064.cms

    We can only buy 3 more Scorpenes based on the previous contract anyway, not 6.

    Not to mention, tube launched Brahmos means you are carrying a smaller inventory of missiles. VLS will allow you to carry as many as 8 missiles, maybe more, and other weapons in a tube config. We are definitely in need of more firepower.

    We can sacrifice aircraft capabilities, but we can't sacrifice submarine capabilities.
     
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