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Eurofighter Typhoon v/s Dassault Rafale - Analysis

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by jagjitnatt, Apr 29, 2011.

?

which aircraft do you prefer

  1. RAFALE

    177 vote(s)
    54.1%
  2. TYPHOON

    150 vote(s)
    45.9%
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  1. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  2. Scorpion82

    Scorpion82 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks that confirms my point. It's not about Rafale being better than Typhoon or the other way round. My sole point here was the translation of Tu's findings for the low canard configuration to Typhoon being hogwash by Dare2. I could copy paste the stuff from that sources myself or phrase it in my own words just to sound smarter than I'am. People should be very careful about Dare2's claims because they are often based on half truths. He'll take a factual base and wrong turn it in order to make the argument, then point at the source and tell you it is written their. If you point out that what he says is not what is written in the document he posts he will start to throw his usual insults.
     
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  3. Scorpion82

    Scorpion82 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Good god I'm sick of your blatant lies about me. Lift increases with speed FACT! CL varies with speed as well! CL at M 0.5/AoA 15 deg is not the same as CL at M 0.8/AoA 15 deg. These are facts, prove them wrong if you can! If not stop throwing insults at me! Your arrogant tone is annoying at best!
     
  4. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    So F-15 has L/D ratio at 1000km/h.
    [​IMG]
    Very interesting to know.

    I know it will have advantages. And I am sure its exactly what the pilots say. Hi altitude, which it is designed for.
     
  5. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    If you flew an A380 at max speed near sea level without much fuel or load inside the aircraft. The amount of lift created would will want to make the aircraft go up therefore you need to apply tail upward force so the aircraft can keep flying level. The end result would be an aircraft flying level with its nose down.
     
  6. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    look the key word is compromise, Dassault as well as Eurofighter consortium, know the same, they simply have different parameters, same is Chengdu or Mikoyan the same.

    If you look at each aircraft built by them you see different solutions, not because some are less smart than others, simply each aircraft is planned for some speeds and altitudes.

    If you fly an F-15 you will try to beat the Su-27 at 800km/h not below 700km/h where the Flanker will beat you, the J-20 is the same they compromised aerodynamics for stealth, they know high canard with no dihedral is better than mid canard with dihedral, but in order to make a stealth fighter they needed high wings, this did not allow high canards.

    F-15 is the same when they added canards they added dihedral to increase lift, around 20 degrees, Lavi has much less dihedral because it has high canard and has mid wing, F-15 like J-20 has high dihedral because they are high wings, no way the can set high canards.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Eurofighter consortium are fully aware they lost lift by adding anhedral to their canard and setting it farther away from the wing, but they gained in lower drag.[​IMG]

    J-20 is a set of contradictions that shows the canard in stealth is very contradictory, american designs have coplanar canards, mid canard with mid wing but with lower lift generation, but very likely lower drag, the chinese added dihedral increasing lift but worsening stealth.
    [​IMG]
    Su-47 and X-29 have coplanar canards to aid the wing unloading it

    So in few words canard position is compromised,
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  7. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    He is NOT making YOUR point at all, the advantages of close-coupled canard doesn't apply to long-moment arm no.

    You can twist and SPIN all you want he explained to YOU in details what the effects of canard wing tips aligned with the wing plan are = reduced LIFT due to DOWNASH which is the point i am making about Typhoon canard wingtip position = RIGHT.

    For the rest, the advantages of close-coupled canard are also obvious and well documented...

    YOU made the point of proving yourself a spinning troll though...
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  8. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Drag vs thrust, lift vs gravity.

    Speed (V) is NOT as factor for maximum turn rate, it is used to compute G as for Maximum Load (structural), once you get this G value or if you already know it (in this cases 11.0 G vs 9.0 G), you can eliminate V from the equation for computing a turn rate.

    Turn rates are computed as i posted and NOT the way Scorpion tries to portrait it.

    And BTW the sustained turn rate of Rafale can be considerably higher than that of Typhoon simply because they both have enough thrust to keep accelerating during a 9.0 G turn, only the FCS of typhoon will not let it go above 9.0 G.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  9. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    well acordnt to this russian graph the F-15 has some superor sustained turn rate near 700km/h to 900km/h at 200 meters of altitude but at 3000 meter only from 700km/h to 800km/h the F-15 will turn better in sustained turn but in instantaneous turn rate the Su-27 is better at 200 meters meaning higher drag at 700km/h to 900km/h

    [​IMG]

    http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=30263&page=4
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  10. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I know that.

    I am sure the Eurofighter can do 11gs if the pilots have the right suit for the job.

    Being able to turn at 11gs and sustaining 9gs are different. What is Rafales sustained turn rate.
     
  11. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    The aircraft STRUCTURE is NOT designed to go over 9.0 G, it is designed on a 1.4 standard vs an international standard of 1.5 (over maximum designed operational G load).

    The FCS will not let you pull more.


    Non-disclosed apart for a more than 30*/sec estimate on some editions of Jane's, so there is little point trying to claim Typhoon better sustained turn rate, it is simply not designed for taking the structural load weither Rafale Is.

    Reason why not one single Typhoon pilots equals Rafale in airshows on G loads.

    As for your assumption of the difference between capability to "turn at 11gs and sustaining 9gs", they depends on the same equation to which you will add the thrust vs drag equation and as a matter of FACT Rafale is capable to pull 9 G at 15.000 ft/350 kt and still accelerate.

    Its thrust allows for a higher sustained G load than 9.0 G in these conditions, its Maximum Load factor too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  12. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Very interesting. I know the F15 has always been a good sustained turning fighter. The problem with it was its instantaneous turn rates.

    Thats why I give it TVN and bigger engines:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
  13. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Eurofighter:  Sustained Turn Rate Supersonic

    RAF Eurofighter Typhoon in his 9G turn | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    EFA Typhoon « Planes, planes and more planes!

    http://airpower.gv.at/fileadmin/user_upload/media/presse_2.7/AIRPOWER11_110702_Fly_In_en.pdf

    Eurofighter Typhoon

    And I just found a new file. Woo hoo.

    http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/misc/TechGuideENG.pdf

    If you want I could try and find Rafales sustained turn rate?
     
  14. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Here is the reason why Rafale pilots says it doesn't need TVC, starting with Eric Gerard one of the flight-test and ex-Rafale demo pilots.

    As for the turn rate and other details you ask for, why don't you try the Rafale GIE to see if they answer you?

    You know that they are under DGA obligation not to disclose such maximum, this includes performances, RCS number of modules on RBE2 AESA, true SPECTRA and weapons datas etc.

    So don't ask or take the datas you will find www for granted, we all know that in the case of Rafale they are sandbagged to hell.

    = Eurofighter Commercials...
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  15. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    HAve to go now. later.
     
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