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Eurofighter Typhoon v/s Dassault Rafale - Analysis

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by jagjitnatt, Apr 29, 2011.

?

which aircraft do you prefer

  1. RAFALE

    177 vote(s)
    54.1%
  2. TYPHOON

    150 vote(s)
    45.9%
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  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Again, the important point was that the F22 pilot praised the Rafale for it's maneuverability and that he is not rejecting what the French pilot say and that both focuses on showing the advantage of their fighter (beeing undefeated for the F22, achieving 4 or draws for Rafale)!

    I don't join the battle about the details in terms of maneuverability of the Rafale, but it is important to understand that Rafale is not a fighter bomber, nor that it is weak in A2A at all and the good results against nearly any US fighter type including the F22, the EF itself, or the Gripen proves this!

    Wrt MMRCA, it is more than obvious that Rafale with it's excellent flight performance, RBE 2 AESA + FSO + SPECTRA detection capabilities and the MICA / METEOR combo will more than capable in air combats, especially against the opponents that it might face, which are not F22s, EFs, or F15s...
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Back to Rafale vs EF...

    Rafale is getting better and that still in a faster pace:

    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/09/libya-aasm-ir-is-combat-proven.html



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The anti tank mode sounds interesting and could be focused on the AASM 125, one of the weapons that are under evaluation to increase Rafales strike capabilities.
     
  3. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    It's 5 draw vs 1 victory and if you refer to the article posted anonymously in the UAE forum, bare in mind that John Lake operates there for quiet some times.

    It is FULL of inaccuracies, such as the number of hours the F-22 pilots had before they went to the UAE ATLC, to quote only one.

    Quiet clear...
    http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/f7/eurofighter-typhoon-v-s-dassault-rafale-analysis-6127/index270.html#post107749

    Now what do you understand by what ONERA says about post-stall maneuvers?
    http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/f7/eurofighter-typhoon-v-s-dassault-rafale-analysis-6127/index364.html#post126094
    As reported by an EPNER-graduate pilots, post-stall maneuvers were operationally evaluated on Rafale.
    Quiet clear too.

    The article is no longer online but still in my archives...
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    As I said, it's depending on source, some says 4/2, some says 5/1, doesn't bother me too much, because to me the fact that Rafale was so comparable is the important point and that's proved many earlier claims to be wrong.
    I also don't take the whole article as a base, just the statement of the F22 pilot, which was showed as a counter to the French pilot, which it isn't!
     
  5. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    We know where the 4/2 source comes from and it is unreliable, the Merchet source is the only one which is btw and even Air&Cosmos later made a different statement the following edition.
    ATLC : L'interview du commandant de l'escadron de chasse 01.007 Provence !!! - capitaine-romain

    What matters are real life performances and i find it hilarious when some pretend that F-22 have a better turn rate, be it instantaneous or sustained when in fact it is limited to 3 g lower than a Rafale...

    One doesn't compute turn rates without structural loads...

    This TVC thing is totally hypped and people online are made to believe that a good design would benefitiate from it, when in fact it is untrue, X-31, F-16, F-22, Typhoon, Su27 and Su 30 have much lower aerodynamic efficiency than Gripen or Rafale and these are well documented.

    Look at the SAAB Gripen controlling in and out of a 80*AoA spiral with a turn rate of 90*/sec...

    And we are told repeatedly that it need TVC to so post-stall?

    This is evidences denial, no less.

    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2010/08/rafale-vs-raptor-what-really-happened.html#links
    And some spin...
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  6. MiG-23MLD

    MiG-23MLD Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yeah Rafale will sustain 11Gs sustained turn rate and the pilot will be able to stay awake.

    20 seconds yeah humans are not limited
     
  7. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    AGAIN: YOU do not know how much g it will be able to sustain because if there is ONE information that never was disclosed about Rafale it is precisely its sustained turn performance.

    AGAIN: You turn your little fantasies into someone else's...

    FACT: Structural g is part of computing a turn rate, a lot more so than V, which is only used to compute G.

    FACT: Rafale have a higher structural limit than F-22 and WE KNOW that at 350 kt/15.000 ft, it still accelerate at 9.0 g.

    End of debate...

    btw it is NOT sustain g which is hard, it is ONSET g, once you are into a turn it is far easier to sustain because you already are in the breathing and muscle contraction routine to fight it.


    Q: Have you ever taken ANY number of G in an aerobatic aircraft?

    Because I did on a CAP 10, including four reverse 90* rolls over 360* turn, reversed loop etc, but obviously i wasn't flying it, just a precision it was flown by the French Aerobatic champion of the time at the aerodrome of Moulins... That's +6.0 -4.5g for you, BOY.

    So not only i have a much higher experience than YOU in the field of stall and control which i have first studied and then performed myself, i also know what g forces are... Oh i nearly forgot, i also done a bit of aerobatics myself in DC on a Rallye 100S.

    YOU make me LAUGH. :lol:

    [video=youtube_share;k_c3qxiTvqg]http://youtu.be/k_c3qxiTvqg[/video]
    10.0, 10.5, 11.0 g.
    [video=youtube_share;MGxIHowTd9E]http://youtu.be/MGxIHowTd9E[/video]
    In fact we can do this in combat as well... What you can see during the airshow we are able to do during the combat... Now the "Newbie" also pulls more than 10.0 g.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  8. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    There are airforces that train to pull up to 11gs but they are not sustainable as there is no suit to sustain 11gs. Or is there a suit to sustain 11gs?
     
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  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Things seem to move in UAE

    Rafale : Dassault en négociations très actives avec les Emirats, Actualités

    Gust: Dassault very active in negotiations with the UAE
    Dassault sent a negotiating team on the spot last weekend wrap the final details of a technical and commercial proposal. The maturity of the Emiratis evoke Dubai Airshow in mid-November. The Brazilian experience, however, urges caution.
    Written by
    Alain RUELLO
    Alain RUELLO
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    His last 3 articles

    09/09 | 7:00
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    Started there just over three years, negotiations for the sale of sixty Rafale UAE has accelerated in recent days. At the request of Abu Dhabi, Dassault has dispatched the weekend a team to complete a technical and financial proposal, it was learned from corroborating sources. This could be delivered by mid-September.

    The Emiratis have mentioned the term of the Show Dubai Air show, which opens Nov. 13 for a possible announcement. They could then formalize the entry into final negotiations.

    The Brazilian experience, however, urges caution. End of 2010, as we approach the departure of President Lula, optimism still prevailed in the French camp. A wrong. Crisis help, Dilma Roussef successor to President Lula, referred indefinitely modernization of combat aviation in the country.

    UAE, the context is different, since it is not a tender, but a negotiation over the counter. Local authorities are therefore more control of their schedule.

    With an armada of 80 F-16 and 60 Mirage 2000 all very modern, the Air Force of the UAE has not - on paper of acute need to renew its fleet. Evoking a deadline could be a means to pressure for lower prices Dassault. "For them to announce something at the Dubai Airshow, they must have a compelling reason to do so," says one observer.

    The side of the Elysée, the agenda is different. Unlike his predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy has been very involved in defense of the Rafale in the international arena. A few months before the presidential announcement of the first export sales would be the most beautiful effect. Even if it means signing the contract in good standing to intervene after May 2012.

    Meanwhile, negotiations are progressing ever since Abu Dhabi has announced a press opening few lines, in June 2008. All chapters are open. The technical configuration? It should finally be close to the French model, with a radar whose range will be improved, but an engine thrust of 7.5 tonnes and not more than 9 tonnes. The war in Libya has much to do: it demonstrated the full capabilities of the device. The component maintenance is being finalized, the French Air Force has made proposals to his counterpart for training and an offer on the table for the weapons (missiles and 2ASM MBDA Meteor).

    Remains a matter of size: If the negotiations result, what about the Mirage 2000 UAE? France has therefore undertook to take them back to try to sell them then? In which case the impact on public finances will not be neutral. Each unit is estimated at 20 million euros. 1.2 billion in total for 60 copies. If Abu Dhabi buys Rafale, however delivery will be spread over several years. The possible resumption of the Mirage will be spread too. Moreover, because of their excellent value for money, these devices may be of interest to the country's aging fleet, but with limited resources. Finally, France will co-finance some or all of the changes in its Rafale program with the UAE, rather than pay alone.

    Contacted, Dassault declined to comment this information.
    ALAIN RUELLO, Les Echos
     
  10. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Double post. Sorry
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  11. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Eurofighter isn't newer bird, they both derived from a common project. More room for growth? how is it? Better in A2A is widely discussed in this forum, wont comment.
     
  12. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R...

    1) First of all pilots trains to sustain g not a number in particular, there is a minimum requiered for them to become fighter pilot, if they fail the test, they don't fly fighters.

    2) How many g they will be able to sustain depends and variates from one individual to the other.

    3) Women can sustain a higher number of g than men due to stronger abdominal muscles.

    4) The g limits allowed by the French equipment Cptn Druet is using is only taking 2/3 g from the maximum number not "limited" to a g limit under 11.0 as he says himself it still works at 11.0 g.

    5) There is no limit for this anti-g suit available in the public domain...

    As usual you write about what you don't know and get it wrong.

    [video=youtube_share;j8i04jBLI5I]http://youtu.be/j8i04jBLI5I[/video]
    Look, NO G suit and 11.2 g...


    Why not?

    Results from most encounters proves Rafale superior so why not saying it, after all our pilots says so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  13. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Are you sure he isnt wearing a g suit.

    New Anti G-Race Suit

    Yes that pilot was not wearing a G suit. :happy:
     
  14. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Are you sure he isnt wearing a g suit.

    New Anti G-Race Suit

    Yes that pilot was not wearing a G suit. :happy:
     
  15. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    YES i am SURE and they have been doing it for many YEARS even before this suit was designed.

    Get yourself informed before posting, you're cluttering the topic with non-sense.

    Video: = July 17, 2008. Article: Apr 18, 2009
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
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