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Eurofighter Typhoon v/s Dassault Rafale - Analysis

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by jagjitnatt, Apr 29, 2011.

?

which aircraft do you prefer

  1. RAFALE

    177 vote(s)
    54.1%
  2. TYPHOON

    150 vote(s)
    45.9%
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  1. Mr_Breaker

    Mr_Breaker Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    and th swiss report is light on data, just a graph.. but u still accept it
     
  2. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    OK Let's make the points...

    a) The 1.250 l tank is supersonic, though both the 2.000 and it are cleared for M 1.6, the 2.000 l is limited to 5.5 g empty, the 1.250 l is cleared for 9.0g empty (from memory), the configuration you quoted wouldn't mean weaponised for A2G but A2A.

    b) The g rating is the Operational rating, it is not the data one would normaly use to compute a maximum turn rate since it does involves Maximum structural G loading, and it is 11.0g, not 9.0 g, under exactly which configuration is unclear but from what i gathered, with 2 wingtip MICAS it would do it easy, the amount of fuel doesn't matter too much since we are talking instantaneous turn rates, unlikely sustained for a long time.


    Undefined, the maximum amount of g depends mostly on external load and the load itself.

    To sumerise, each load have its own flight envelop and firing envelop in the case of weapons, if i could tell you that of AIM-9 and Matra 550 as equiping a Mirage IIIE, i couldn't tell you about MICA even if i wanted because i don't know.

    What i do know though, is that these newer generation of A2A weapons are a lot less g and Mach limited in order to allow the aircraft to make uses of its full flight envelop, but that the limit could also be dictated by separation issues, as was the case for AIM-9 B compared to Matra 550 (about 0.3 M), and is the case for the ventral ejectors which are more g limited than the pylons rails.

    So since there are more than one parameter to take into account it is hard to guess unless you had the infos in the first place.

    I don't think these assemblies are g limited to 9.0 when it comes to AAMs, more likely firing parameters which must be harmonised to the flight envelop of the aircraft, i am quiet sure that every MICA station on a Mirage 2000 are cleared above 9.0 g simply because the aircraft is designed for 9.0 g, and you also need a structural margin for safety in order to qualify it.

    The ventral ejectors on Rafale would be the exeption (I think 7.0 g firing limit) and since they are BVR AAMs it matters little they would be fired first anyway, it make sense as you can use a lighter mechanic assembly.

    Rafale pulling 11.0 g does it with two wingtip smoke generators which are not necessarely structurally stronger than MICAS designed to 40 g+, so you can bet your next X-Mass turkey that it can do it in combat as well which is what Ruet said during the Dubai Airshow, now MICA firing envelop must be classified and i do not have the info, naturally.

    Including empty 1.250 l tanks and supersonic weapons.


    Yes. But not only strike and it depends on the weapon, i am quiet sure that some like Exocet or AS-30 would have different flight and firing envelops, in the case of bombs for example it is mostly aerodynamic since they are generally not designed to be supersonic.

    So once again, the weapon flight and firing envelop are the main limit, then the pylon/ejector and assembly, this is only a thumb rule of course, but all in all i am confident that in combat configuration with 4 AAMs and 50% internal fuel a Rafale would pull 11.0 g easy.

    That's because i can fully comprehend what it means, while you can't, if you don't know your most basic aerodynamics, differeing data can only confuse you even more than you already are, i don't have this problem, don't blame me, blame your ignorance, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  3. Mr_Breaker

    Mr_Breaker Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    no u just see what u want to believe and ignore every thing else...Im kinda shocked that your so eager to accpet a graph as evidance with out knows the data behind it. Your normally thorough with pages and pages of "stuff" backing up ur claim.
     
  4. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    What i chose to ignore from now on are trolls like you who don't come anywhere close to understand the subject and can only express their frustration by attacking those who can when their reality doesn't suit them.

    Don't waste my time and good forum space, go and learn your basics if by chance you can grow balls anytimes soon, you're pathetic, i know teenage Air Cadet who knows tons more than you do, get off my back, i'm not your mum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  5. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Dare2, did you ever consider the fact that maybe somone just made that to try and say that Rafale is better. Dont get me wrong Rafale is a great plane. And it does match what is said about it in many ways. But from what is written in some places. Even in that forum you showed us. It looks like that even some groups cant be trusted for reliable info without trying to bash the other.

    And another thing, is there any details on any Rafale problems?
     
  6. Mr_Breaker

    Mr_Breaker Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LOL im the troll.. i wasnt the one banned from the forum dare 2..... You was.
     
  7. Mr_Breaker

    Mr_Breaker Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Like Dare 2 is gonna tell you that... its perfect to him
     
  8. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Well if he is smart then he should know nothing is perfect. If there was a thing as a perfect jet, then I would expect everyingthing would 100%, that includes accident free and no loss of life. Gripen is nearer that area to me. I dont recall any loss of life on that jet.
     
  9. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    When one learn about Aerodynamics, Structural design, Flight mechanic (among other things you need to fly aircrafts) one doesn't need anyone to have a far better idea than your bunch put together in a full week long brainstorm.


    There have been issues but the design is sound, again i don't need your opinion to know about it i can see it, you can't.

    So take it from me and your MoD, Typhoon design is dated from the Mirage 4000 generation, its structural engineering is faulty as is its aerodynamics, proofs? FIXES:

    Automatic Low Speed Recovery = Aerodynamics.

    Transonic Mitigation = Aerodynamics.

    Inlet Vibration = Aerodynamics and Structural.

    LEX = Aerodynamics.



    Results: Typhoon is limited to 9.0 g and 6.000 h, Rafale 11.0 g and 7.000 h, now you boyz go and reflect on the fact that you're so arrogants as to think that Eurogither could design something better than Dassault could with only a fraction of their experience, on top of being a German design which was always meant to be equiped with TVC to reach the supermaneuvrability Eurofighter is claiming today.

    I know you think you can win the London Marathon by doing your daily pub run but this works only in your bunch world of fantasy, this is aviation, it is a science and since you never bothered leaning or studying it in any form nor detail, you hardly qualify to put what i write into doubt and as amatter of FACT you never managed to fault me, keep trying.

    Something else, if there was issues with Rafale, they would be fixed.

    Now you two can go and play orange and lemon together you'd do better than writing about aviation.
    [​IMG]

    Try playing with this, it's your level.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  10. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Later guys.

    Back Tomorrow.
     
  11. JWCook

    JWCook FULL MEMBER

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    As you rightly suggest there are problems for all programs, with respect to the Rafale PESA was frankly rubbish it needed AESA more than Typhoons Captor-M, the OSF is obsolete, engines are underpowered by comparison with the competition.

    The MMI has come in for some criticism, but with no in depth assessment its hard to quantify at what level the criticism is justified, reliability and MMH/FH have also been highlighted in the same manner.

    Construction is in life support, its being kept just alive while waiting on an export order, maybe even the MMRCA (Lots of French fingers crossed).

    Funding is going to be a problem for upgrades for the foreseeable future, once again waiting for the export potential to convert to a signed order, this leads to increased costs if the optimum number of aircraft are not being produced.

    Also a ramp up of production would be a problem for Dassault as the described the possible UAE order ramp up as just manageable, however the 126 unit order for the MMRCA would be a much bigger proposition and included setting up another production site, something Eurofighter has already accomplished with the 4 partners.

    If The Rafale doesn't get the MMRCA its future looks pretty grim, the UAE looking less inclined than ever, looks like the other gulf states are awaiting the MMRCA decision, its not all doom and gloom - Brazil is a fair chance and even the UK may be forced to do the unthinkable and possibly order some M's for its carriers as a stopgap measure.

    I'm sure there is more, but that's enough for now.

    Cheers
     
  12. Dare2

    Dare2 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    As you rightly suggest rubish is advertised, but you talk talk and talk rubish and never manage to back up, when we post official documents, as usual you're all mouth no substance whatsoever, that's the good old basis of trolls flaming, no less, and certainly not information.

    What? MOD/NAO/EADS not good enough for you eh?

    Please SHOW us official document on all the BS you are writing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2012
  13. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    what about Naval EFT
     
  14. TereBinLaden

    TereBinLaden Captain STAR MEMBER

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    Naval EFT is a concept in paper so it is not an interim solution.
     
  15. Wily

    Wily REGISTERED

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    Hello Dare2
    I dont understand why you are so agressive.
    You seem to understand and know a lot ( Im not in capacity to judge that, it is the impression you give)
    Why don't you present quietly your arguments? They will have more strength in that way.
    Sorry, but I understand that from time to time you're banned from this forum, it gives some rest.

    By the way, I find the Rafale esthetically beautiful, no more - but not less.
    When will the decision be annouced? It becomes hardly endurable!
     
    2 people like this.
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