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F-35 inferior to T-50 & J-20 in head to head combat - Carlo Kopp

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Optimist, Sep 22, 2011.

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  1. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    Lets simplify this someone please explain this to me so that i understand. Take typhoons for example. Delta canard. At what flight regimes is this more superior than let's say mig29 or f15? And since they're planning on placing TVC on typhoons, how will that make it better.
     
  2. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    Oh, and why did the Americans go with 2d TVc, rather than 3d?
     
  3. USMC48th

    USMC48th FULL MEMBER

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    @Kat....whatup girly? Long time no see. I see you fit right at home in these discussions. Well, how u been? I'm back in town for the weekend. Say hi to your family. My mom said they were over your parents house for dinner last week. I wish I was there. I love talking to your father. Anyways, I'll hit ya up lates. Don't forget...Sandy called to arrange that class...talk to her please. I cant do it. Catcha soon sis.
     
  4. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    Ed, I texted her about it. But wtf Eddie, are you under a rock? Where have you been? Is this how we can reach you now on a forum??? We are all wondering where you get lost to all the time. Big bro, I'm teaching zumba this monday at 3pm, same location. Come if you're in town. Call my dad you jerk, he misses you. Anyways, ciao.
     
  5. satya

    satya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  6. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    @satya...thanks a bunch pal. I'm reading it right now.
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is a diff between the canards of Typhoon which are control canards and that of Rafale which are close coupled canards. Mig-29 has LERX. F-15 is conventional design.
    Typhoon canards degrade the overall lift a bit whn used. Rafale canards add to the lift when used. between F-15/Mig-29 and euro canards, the canards will be able to turn faster and also maintain better high speed manouverability.
     
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  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    3D TVC can be used at very low speeds only as it will overstress the airframe and at high speeds, the rudder control is adequate to perform anykind of manouver. F-22 airframe especially its tail will not support a 3D TVC.
     
  9. satya

    satya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    First of all TVC on f-22 is limited to 2-D due to rectangular shape.

    3-D TVC provides added yaw control.

    Maybe designer of ATF didn't require 3-D TVC on expense of well preserved stealth.

    3-D TVC of Pak-Fa is not stealthy as compared to 2-D of raptor.

    Some benefits of raptor's nozzle design.

    1. From stealth PoV rectangular nozzle shape was better. The pointed shape of nozzle do not return much radar signals as compared to round nozzle. As radar signals do not strike normal to surface. Also the nozzle flaps on f-22 are made of heavy ceramics which has reduced IR signature as compared to round metal nozzle.


    2. Aerodynamic PoV: if you look at nozzles you can see that they are very well blended with the fueslage, hence airflow doesn't abruptly change on while flowing over nozzles, while in case of circular nozzles it becomes little turbulent And situation is worse at supersonic speeds

    3. They are more maintainable. It has 2 nozzle flaps per engine which helps in vectoring the thrust by moving up and down. And due to very simple working they are easy to maintain while In 3d TVC there is a complex arrangement of rings and actuators hence there is lot more to go wrong.

    These are amongst few points I can think of as an outsider
     
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  10. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    That article satya was very informative. From what I understood one of the benefits is at high speed it helps reduce drag. Because you don't rely on aerodynamic surfaces to actuate fully in order to turn the aircraft at high speeds hence they don't become a drag burden. But what Picard said also makes sense. Well, much for me to learn yet
     
  11. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    @AA.....I'M interested to read your input on this. You know the vector thrust and the canard layout. Please join in.
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Such benefit will accrue to Typhoon and for Rafale it might be negligible.
     
  13. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    I'm not sure if I'm calling them by their right name...but what on earth are those flaps above the air inlets on pakfa???? Are they a stealthy close cupped lanyards? Or do they just control the air speed going into the inlets? How do they affect the stealth?
     
  14. Death.By.Chocolate

    Death.By.Chocolate 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    There are several reasons; chief among them is crew safety, air frame fatigue and spatial disorientation. Multi-axis thrust vectoring was studied extensively; MATV test vehicles included the ability to reverse thrust. The ability to accelerate and decelerate in a close in engagement is far more important than post stall maneuverability. The idea is to control your opponents closure rate with the intention of forcing an overshoot and role reversal the purser surrenders the offensive and is forced defensive.
    Principally it was recognized that exceptional pilot skill is required to make multi-axis thrust vectoring combat relevant the limitation of multi-axis thrust vectoring is human. Have you ever experienced an out of control spin in a car on a dark highway? In the absence of visual cues (street signs) or instruments(compass) you will struggle to reorient yourself and resume your pre-spin heading. Close in it is critical to know at all times where your foes and friends are in relation to your own aircraft, with 3D thrust vectoring you risk loosing this awareness.
     
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  15. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    Very good questions satya. I am very concerned. But I'm not alone. Many of us out there who studied the pictures of pakfa. It's not only the pix of pakfa that are scary it's the very aircraft it is designed to succeed. The su-35 proved to the world with its radar, extreme manueverability, and weapons loads that it is more than a worthy adversary to America's teen series and even to rafale and typhoons. But t50 is going to be better than its older brother the su35. Now if that doesn't scare any american or Europeans then they're in LALA land.
    As far as America working on a 6th gen......I doubt it. What I think Is going on is that yhey are first defining it. Once defining a true 6th gen is cleared then comes the hard work of designing individual components. Composites, sensors, engines, controls, (I really don't think the conventional control surfaces will allow the extreme stealth that a 6th gen fighter requires. They need an entirely new way of controlling the flight...no moving parts maybe shape changing skin and wings????), energy weapons are available but still poorly defined when it comes to purpose they have on a jet, and even then they are too bulky for now. Once 75% of the components are designed, then they can think of a platform. Even if they started this research 15 year's ago, we won't see a prototype for another 25 year's. But one factor will impede this ambitions. And that is this....us economy will suffer a catastrophic blow, much worse than now. Dollar will be dead and replaced. Our government is living on credit cards. The public is convinced that we are doing well compared to 4 years ago. Yes, on the surface we are. But we are living on credit...and when we hit our limit, we will drop much deeper than we did few years ago. And that will affect the world, not only us.
     
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