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F-35 inferior to T-50 & J-20 in head to head combat - Carlo Kopp

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Optimist, Sep 22, 2011.

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  1. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    why, America is too interested in selling F-35 to India:blink:
     
  2. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    they no need of that collapsed plane that is failure of future fighter........
    they have best jet F22 ..so they no need of that waste jet..
    NO COUNTRIES WILL BUY THAT BIRD WITHOUT THE COUNTRIES THAT INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT.......
    F35 is a failure project than expected..........
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    F35 is never or vary rarely going to fight anyone head to head.
     
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  4. Shikari

    Shikari 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    lol if you already know that then why build it???
     
  5. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    JSF philosophy suggests that going head to head with another aircraft is basically made irrelevant due to advances in BVR combat. It is meant to utilize its long range sensors to fire off AMRAAMs and then make a break for it, not hang around to engage the enemy combatant in a dog fight in the event its AMRAAMs miss their mark.
     
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  6. SpArK

    SpArK SorCeroR Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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  7. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Different target uses. The F22 fighter is a replacement for the high-end fighters like the Navy's F14 or Air Force's F15. The F35 Fighter Bomber is a replacement for more general use planes, like the Navy's F18 or Air Force's F16. High-end aircraft are more capable and expensive to buy and operate. That said when combined with all the special features intergrated weapons system there is not likely going to be any threat to the F35. The air force generals are now asking the aircraft designers for a supersonic, long range heavy bomber that could operate with, or without, a crew. Since the B-2 requires only a two pilots, and many commercial airliners have flight control equipment that, with a little tweaking, could eliminate the pilots altogether, the idea of heavy bomber UAV is well within the capabilities of current technology. The way this is going, it's likely that the next heavy bomber will be big, fast, stealthy and uninhabited
     
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  8. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What will happen when it faces PAK FA T-50
     
  9. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Did US Navy have F-22. I thought only Air Force possess it
     
  10. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Only air force. And for once i agree with averageamerican, you cant compare .
     
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  11. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Ok first i hate F35, and for several reasons, BUT
    Imagine its a concept :
    First VSTOL Stealth supersonic fighter
    Unmatched situational awareness (even from F22)
    Probably unmatched sensors (which is a prerequisite for upper proposition)

    So it will (when?) become an awesome fighter, certainly not at the intended price.

    Now poor kinematics, poor stealth loading.

    Imho, very good sead/dead sriker
    very good interdiction fighter against low number opponents (aka small raids, not massive war)
    But VERY subject to attrition

    I do realize this analysis is VERY simplified
     
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  12. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    This was intended for a UKIP article:

     
  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    in air combat the F-35 will see an enemy, and shoot that enemy, much earlier than will the Typhoon, even after the latter is given an updated AESA radar later in the century. In a hypothetical and unlikely head-to-head match-up, all else being equal (support elements, pilot skill, etc.), the Typhoon will be terminated more than likely before its pilot is even aware he or she is under attack.

    Sadly for the UK, Spain, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia and whoever else has made the disastrous mistake to purchase this relic of a by-gone era, the Typhoon will soon be almost, but not quite, as irrelevant as the so-called Super Hornet. The F-35 will exceed the Typhoon at all levels, including maneuverability. Despite the latter's canards, I am astounded by how very little people on this board understand the very peculiar yet very unbeatable aerodynamic configuration common to both the F-22 and F-35. The enormous control surfaces, set far behind the axis of gravity in both as well as far behind the engine, provide a degree of maneuverability unmatched by any comers. Again, the USAF is being coy about the F-35 in this regard, but this aircraft will not be beaten by any aircraft now flying except for the F-22. Were the F-35 to be fitted with thrust-vectoring, however, it would be more maneuverable yet than the F-22.

    The capability gap between the F-35 and the Typhoon at all levels in favor of the former is greater yet than that between a late-model F-16 and an early-model Mig-23 (again, of course, in favor of the former).
    , Carl Sagan was fond of saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." The assertion made above, that "nations" are "well on their way" to making stealth "useless" is an extraordinary claim for which evidence is neither offered by the writer nor proven by another known, reliable source, let alone sources. All else is conjecture until proven otherwise.
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Wont answer about maneuvrability, noone can say as there are already cracks at 5/6g
    half trolling :smitten: F35 will certainly be a very good fighter, but prolly not in terms of dogfight
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012
  15. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Even Eurofighter guys call the F35 as A35 because its not much of a fighter.

    Then you have the Rand guys that the US did somthing to so desperatly to shut up. "We dont why they did it" Yeah they made all that for no reason. Lol

    THEN this guy gets recorded and the vid put on YT:



    I think we all get the jist of just how manueverable the F35 is.

    Oh. Typhoon has supercruise (like every great Eurojet Rafale Gripen) which boosts the range of the missile on firing without reheat and it has PIRATE with a range of about 90 miles that can track 200 targets. And doesnt the Meteor already have a range beyond 60 miles :blink: so with supercruise you are probably looking at more than 80 miles range or great at reheat at mach 2.

    IR systems give aircraft anti stealth capability rather than just stealth firing:

    Eurofighter’s Future: Tranche 3, and Beyond

    [​IMG]

    Also there is this PIRATE image of Typhoon:

    [​IMG]

    And guess what. The Typhoon in that picture is not just carrying fuel tanks but also SRAAM missiles on its outer pylons, so I guess IR systems can also detect missiles. Wait IR systems can detect missiles because Rafale has IR missile detection all around it:

    [​IMG]

    These IR systems are designed to detect even the smallest heat traces at great ranges so I am pretty sure they can see a missile, the airbourne laser or ABL has IR systems to detect missiles!

    Even if the aircraft is flying at lowspeed it creates a lot of heat just over the skin that every IR system can see:



    So good luck F35 or F22 against a PAK FA because it has an IR system on its freakin nose:

    [​IMG]

    And I am pretty sure the J-20 will also get an IR system.

    IRST mate, its a b*tch.

    I would take a Rafale or Gripen in a second for our QE2 carriers.

    Oh Carl Sagen, we must ask him why the F35 wasnt in Libya since its just so good :blah: or does the US send a billion dollar jet the B2 to do its bombing on countries that have crap tech (The B2 with an IR photo taken of it.) Even the Eurofighter had a bit of that action even the Gripen wanted to have a go. Where was the F-35 or F-22!!!!!

    Please man, dont listen to the BS. If stealth was so good then where is the evidence, or an F35 being super manueverable (or does it just roll?) Is the evidence the F-117 were it was shot down by a low tech country??? I bet when the B2 went into Libya every air to air weapon was destroyed first.

    Hey Japan got F35s for spy missions and bombing but what happens when the chinese see it and starts a war, it goes against a J20 which by the Chinese say its got a max speed of Mach 2.5!!!! And from the size of that things weapons bay they might make a missile called the Comet (or pigeon eater).

    Why do people say stealth is unbeatable. Look MBDA made a cool video of Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen shooting UCAVs:



    Oh but stealth is unbeatable?? Really, so how does the US plan to defeat stealth planes like Russian UCAVS and such, even if they didnt have really good stealth materials they will still have a tiny RCS??

    So the F35 and F22 being these so called great jets that have done NOTHING in their entire life compared to canard aircraft or any other aircraft.

    Oh, Britain has F35s. And we know what they are capable of, or we would never have said that we should call them A35s:



    So good luck with your exercises. I hope the F35 can keep up with the F22 (which has to slow down for it).
     
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