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F-35 inferior to T-50 & J-20 in head to head combat - Carlo Kopp

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Optimist, Sep 22, 2011.

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  1. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Eurofighter said the same thing, the part I am most worried about is that it will be used on our carriers. I am actually worried about modern and future threats. It has the electronics but without decent fighter performance it will be dead. Most people tend to use F22 for the fighter role not F35, If our carriers are out at sea they need fighter performance defence. They F35s can attack but they hold off the opposition. If the enemy gets too close they are dead.
     
  2. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    That's why there was proposal for naval Typhoon.
     
  3. satya

    satya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Dude, perhaps I put it across in a wrong manner and for that I apologise

    BUT
    You and many others have been pissed off by average american's claims of uncontesed supermacy of F-22 and F-35, hence many of them went ahead and totally ridiculed both aircrafts which inturn pissed me off.
    The aircrafts are not that bad, nor that great but they surely are amongst best or even the best currently flying aircraft. And they do what they have been employed for.
     
  4. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Which is I support it. I wouldnt mind having a few F35s as AWACs (and strike role) but there is a decent fighter on the carriers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  5. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    F22 is good aircraft once we forget poisonous stealth coating and cost, but there are better fighters out there; F35, on the other hand, can't even be called fighter.

    Yes, F35 is primarly strike aircraft, and will probably be better than Typhoon in that role.
     
  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The Russians are excellently capable of rising eyebrows by sending their “prototypes” and “new aircraft” to different air-shows, or presenting their “paper designs”. Yet, the aircraft need to have true prototypes Ã￾ equipped with all systems fully functioning, and the means for the production of these being developed. If such a project could be realized, it would take the outlay of funds, which in turn would take faith in the feasibility of the project. That asks for a major effort. So far, however, the signs from Russia were not especially positive in this regard. Russian aircraft often have airframes of excellent design and maneuverability. But thats just part of a jet fighter. The Russian weakness is in stealth, the T50 just has some elements of stealth,, will be a first generation half stealth plane. But their major weakeness is Avoinics,, even India realizes this and is calling for at least 49 upgradeds in Avionics and are intending to do much of the Avonics works them selves. India hopes to buy some of its avionics systems from Israel which is understandable as the entire Indian defense budget for research and development is only about half a billion a year, about 1/150 of what the US spends, and this is to develope systems that the US has had on its planes for years. Israel with only six million spends almost as much on research and development as India, Russia spends about one and half billion....... Israel's secret new weapon? - Israel News, Ynetnews Skull and Bones might know about this, think its his field.
     
  7. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    I dont know what navy will do? @AA....look closely at the airframe of PAKFA, if you know anything at all about aerodynamics you can see how it will outperform f22 in a knife fight. As the navy goes, they will have to rely of f18 and that's not very comforting. Gone are the days when Harriet jump jet was sufficient to hold down the fort. Now our potential enemies have deadly fighters. As a woman sometimes my hormones do the talking. America had always been on the offence and had numerical superiority, US fell behind in defensive armaments. Now that numerical superiority is being challenged. We are behind in defensive weapons maybe by a decade or more than the eastern blocks. If I had the design board to myself I would make a delta canard f22 about 23m long and put all the f35 sensors in that airframe. Build at least 600 of each instead of 178 f22 and more than 2500 f35. Navy could use the longer more maneuverable f22 bomber. That said, they wouldnt need a dedicated 2018 bomber and the price of f22 would be half of what it is. Plus the capability of that strike fighter would be better than f35. If Americans like AA stopped putting down other countries maybe more ppl would like us more??? It's not just arrogance it's also ignorance. We have many many ignorant ppl here guys, but rarely you see arrogance such as that AA has displayed in this forum.
     
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  8. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Problem is that corporations rule United States... it is weapons manufacturers that dictate US weapons procurement policies, far more than Government. Gates decided to cut spending, and how he did it? He stopped production of F22 and decided to rely on F35 to fulfill AtA role. F22 is literally mauled by law of diminishing returns, but it is fighter, whereas F35 is tactical bomber (and before AA says that it has fighter designation... F117 also has).
     
  9. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    I seriously doubt the f35 can fill the growers role. As for awac....it can be better strategically if used properly. A 50 meter sore thumb like E3 can hardly be of any use when the real fight will be over the adversaries mainland rather than 300 miles over the ocean. Plus the electrooptical ir and such sensors could be more useful than awac all tucked in a small petite semi stealth package. What every airforce needs is also a stealth tanker. A stealth platform for both air refueling and transport. But that's a discussion of another thread i hope.
     
  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  11. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    In that situation you don't need AWACS anyway, there are ground radars.

    True, but that can also be put on Growler. Why pay 300 million USD a piece for F35 when there are cheaper, and just as - or more - capable, alternatives?
     
  12. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    That's spot on correct. But remember, Israel went up against mediocre pilots in general. And to top it off, put those mediocre pilots inside a mediocre airframe. If Israel was to face Chinese or Russians throughout its history, I bet you their doctrine would look very different today.
     
  13. katherine

    katherine FULL MEMBER

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    Damn you boy, ya I agree. I still think my original plan of a f22 bomber/ fighter along side the f22 makes more sense than current f35/f22 scheme
     
  14. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    I apologize if I came across as harsh. Perhaps AA's rudeness rubbed off a bit on me.

    With F22, the US tried to build the world's first 5th gen air superiority fighter which would be the stealthiest and the most technologically advanced fighter to this day. They had all the right intentions but somewhere along the way, they lost it completely. On pen and paper it certainly is the world's best fighter but in reality, its quite fragile from a lot of aspects. One blatant miscalculation I see is not putting an IRST on the F22. Then there are several other issue but lets not go there right now as most points have been discussed to death on this forum.

    I could have accepted the fact that it is a high maintenance aircraft being so advanced. But a high maintenance aircraft that breaks down almost every other day? Doesn't make sense! What would happen in an intense wartime scenario where say the American airspace is under threat? Will the pilot concentrate on destroying enemy targets or worry about being choked to death by the aircraft's oxygen supply? IMO, it would have probably made more sense in trying to evolve the F-15 Silent Eagle platform.

    Another gripe I have with the American decision making....

    There were initially two contenders as you probably know, the YF-23 Black Widow (which looked like a beast by the way) and the YF-22.

    The Black Widow lost out to the Raptor despite being faster and stealthier, just because the Raptor was more maneuverable. This is what I just don't get man! Maneuverability plays a huge role in Within Visual Range combat. But in WVR combat, stealth does not play any role. So why sacrifice stealth when stealth is the key factor in 5th gen aircrafts? The idea is to stay undetected, shoot down your enemy before he knows you are there and get outta there at the speed of heat.

    Choosing the Raptor design implies that the Americans did not completely rule out possibilities of WVR combat although they keep on insisting that WVR combat is an obsolete concept and most wars will be fought Beyond Visual Range. Why this hypocrisy? If you really think that WVR combat is history, why not choose the Black Widow?

    I think the Black Widow would have made a great 5th gen plane with unique stealth shaping and even harder to detect than the F-22. May be it wouldn't have been a great airshow piece but would have probably made a helluva combat aircraft.

    F-35: I just don't wanna talk about it. Its just too disappointing from every aspect!
     
  15. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    United States did not face anything better for decades either, so I'm not sure it is all about enemies. Israel is a similar situation to Croatia however - small territory with even less strategic depth. They wouldn't have many opportunities for BVR engagements even if BVR theory was proven as accurate. United States and Russia on the other hand have large territories to defend, which may have played part in them favoring relatively large, BVR-oriented aircraft.
     
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