Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

F 35 JSF v/s Dassault Rafale

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picdelamirand-oil, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,119
    Likes Received:
    125
    Country Flag:
    India
    Not every is killed by radiation. 200 Kt is destructive in radius of 4 kms (50 km2). Karachi is 3500 km2. We need 70 200kt warheads to destroy Karachi completely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  2. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,119
    Likes Received:
    125
    Country Flag:
    India
    If thats the case let US & Russia reduce their nuclear arsenal to 100 warheads.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,307
    Okay, the discussion's gone far enough on this thread. You can take it up on a different thread. No more off-topic posts or I'm deleting them.
     
    halloweene likes this.
  4. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,715
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    :cray:
     
  5. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
  6. haerospace

    haerospace FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    2
    Country Flag:
    India
    hi halloweene..

    i guess the dimensions were not that of hawk t2..
    it was much bigger...

    i apologize for going off-topic...
     
  7. Big Pic

    Big Pic Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    223
    Country Flag:
    United States
    The farce continues...
     
  8. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    I think you're in the wrong thread, this isn't the Rafale MRCA thread.
     
  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    You're assuming the exports are spread evenly, when in fact the Saudi and Oman contacts are British in addition to 160 RAF ones. So 244 by build. By company stake it's 1/3rd BAE so 200. Another order of 48-72 from RSAF is likely.

    Meanwhile 3000/10 = 300 F-35s plus the 200 Typhoons.
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    $96m my ass.

    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/india-inks-deal-with-france-for-36-rafale-fighter-jets

    So that's €5.12bn for 36 aircraft at customer's spec. At time of signing, that was $170m.:lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  11. NKVD

    NKVD Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    625
    Country Flag:
    India
    Do you Know Operating Cost Of F-35 & LCC

    According to air force cost-per-flight-hour (CPFH) data obtained by Flightglobal, the conventional takeoff and landing F-35 cost $42,200


    [​IMG]

    Let Us Calculate Average cost of F-35


    A pilot flows average 300 to 350 hours in year

    $42200 $x 300 hours =12.6 Million $ operating cost Per year

    Lets say USAF operate Aircraft for 30 years in Life service

    Now,12.6 Lets assume 13 million $ x 30 years = 390 Million $ For operating cost An F-35 for 30 years in service

    Now the real cost of An F-35 A = 83.4 +390 =
    Now 473.4 Million $ Excluding maintenance cost such as engine overhauls and others

    True cost of A operating F-35 is 473.4 Million $ (Excluding overhauls) These are projections For USAF which is OEM

    For export customers The cost will be 30-40 % High


    TC
    NKVD
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,301
    Likes Received:
    6,255
    Country Flag:
    France
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    7,574
    Country Flag:
    India
    Open season
     
    Picdelamirand-oil likes this.
  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,301
    Likes Received:
    6,255
    Country Flag:
    France
    An extract of a comment on AVIATION WEEK Network

    The fact is that UK perfectly know the capabilities of Rafale, so do Germany, Japan never even considered to give a try, either they buy US or domestic.

    Brit and German pilots LOVE Rafale, the little problem is that with all the dirty tricks Brits did to Dassault, especially while all were supposed to build the Eurofighter together with Italy and Spain, it'd be a total humiliation to end using the French aircraft, thus, due to the real FIASCO F-35 is, they may end forced to get Rafale-M for their CVs, Rafale being absolutely STOBAR compatible.

    It's very likely that Germany ends ordering Rafale too : Typhoon ain't great as a strike aircraft and is nonetheless more expensive but also has high hourly costs and needs high maintenance, moreover, it's very feasible merging our armies in a not so very far future, EADS even considered pulling out pure military aircraft.

    Typhoon now loses all competitions to Rafale, although those won were sales on political (or other?) grounds : Rafale is no match for Typhoon, for F-35 too BTW, it has as long legs as F-15E, you know, and it'd even be easy to modify the Izumo class ships to operate Rafales, ending even cheaper than using F-35B : just add a ski jump and an angled deck on sponsons, USS-Antietam style. The Brit ones only need to add arrestor cables and places to put their systems are already there from blue-prints.

    Be aware that Rafale is the only omnirole aircraft and BTW, it's not a 4.5gen arcraft, according to 5th gen aircraft : although it was classified for long, Rafale's stealth goes much further than alleged 5th gen, so do its capabilities, moreover, it's very evolutive.

    Since Rafale's stealth has been unclassified, what we ended to learn about its non publicised abilities, some begun to label Rafale a Gen.5.5 aircraft.

    Well, by reading F/A-XX's wish list, I don't think there'll be a want to have the US sharing their 6th generation technology as, if we except the technologies that do not EXIST anywhere on Earth and that, until further notice, are wishful thinking from Boeing's engineers, I think that US should really give a try to Rafale as, following the F-35 technical FIASCO, Rafale will be considered 6th generation if I refer to the Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) and wishlist known as visibly, the technologies that are sought without being available can also be put on a Rafale upgrade package while some US still have to develop are long time familiar to the French aircraft!

    Let's look for what F/A-XX wishlist calls :

    "air superiority fighter with multi-role capabilities to replace the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler, while complementing the F-35C Lightning II and UCLASS unmanned aircraft, that can operate in anti-access/area-denial environments."
    => Rafale can replace with advantage Super Hornet, Growler, F-35 incl the F-35B and can already operate the nEUROn combat drone as a squadron. It has already been tested at flying just over a S-300/S-400's radar (at relatively high altitude) while such battery's is known to lock a F-22/J-20 etc from 240km...

    "The aircraft must be capable of operating from Navy Nimitz-class and Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carriers."
    => Rafale-M already operates from US CVNs!!!!

    "Primary missions include air combat, ground attack, surface warfare, and close air support. Other missions can include air-to-air refueling, reconnaissance, surveillance, and target acquisition (RSTA), and electronic attack. There is consideration for manned, unmanned, and optionally manned platforms"
    => Rafale already does it all! It can even land on an aircraft carrier in full automatic mode so doing unmanned things...

    "An open architecture design is desired, so different sensors, payloads, and weapons can be plugged in for a specific mission, and be able to be moved around for multiple different missions on different days or different sorties"
    => Rafale has already been conceived this way...

    "according to the Navy's Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air (NIFC-CA) battle network concept, an individual platform would not need to have a full suite of sensors and rely on off-board data-linked information from other platforms to provide targeting information and guide weapons launched from the platform."
    => The 1st aircraft having launched and hit a target while the target was locked by another aircraft is... Rafale!

    "have power and cooling systems for directed energy weapons"
    => Classified in France, nobody is willing to end in jail by talking about such subject... Nevertheless, Clément Ader's Avion was classified 13 years before the Wright Brothers took off so when smth is classified with the French, there must be something around...

    "have sensors that can target small radar cross-section targets"
    => Rafale detects the friction of air on such target, i.e. it's first (now outdated!) system could already lock a Mach1.7 supercruise F-22 from 270-285km/front and 430/450km/rear.

    "cyber warfare platforms at a tactical level as part of a FoS are being explored"
    => And they think they're the only ones to do it? Seriously?

    "Smart skins would have sensors and electronics integrated into the fuselage of the aircraft itself to increase the technological ability of the sensors while reducing drag and increasing speed and maneuverability"
    => Rafale is just known to have a system of about 30 sensors all over the plane. Well, the 'skin' is already affected to baked-in radar absorbent materials that also reduce the RCS for lo-freq radars... Seems there is a lack of technology in actual US planes. The platform already proved itself more manoeuvrable than any aircraft on market without even vectoring thrust and VT will be available for sales in 2018.

    " Maximum connectivity refers to massively increased communications and sensor technology, such as having the ability to connect with satellites, other aircraft, and anything providing real-time battlefield information"
    => What? They still can't do this? I knew for a while that we had distanced the US gear but not at the point they didn't hoped it before 2030! Even the Russian are forward now! It's exactly what they tested in Syria by sending their biggest navy assets : the interconnectivity of it all!

    " Engine technologies like scramjets would enable an aircraft to cruise at supersonic speeds without needing an afterburner"
    => The problem being you must already be at a serious speed to use ramjets/scramjets. The first demonstrator with such engines was a 50's French prototype. The problem for now is that you need two systems or be launched at an already high speed by another craft to use this. Seems that Safran is already working on a combo turbofan+scramjet. Nevertheless, the faster you fly, the less stealth you are, even if you have serious IR reduction measures : you can't cheat physics!

    "F/A-XX would not rely on speed or stealth as much as previous generation jet fighters due to better signature detection and proliferating high-speed anti-aircraft weapons. Instead, the fighter would carry a new spectrum of weapons to overwhelm or suppress enemy air defenses"
    => Again, they are seriously late! I'd like to have seen the face of Brit Typhoon pilots when they ended with their radar screens filled with ghost echoes everywhere... Funny point, another article (not on wiki) was talking about the use of active stealth... IF F/A-XX is fielded in 2030 and nothing is less certain, Boeing will just be 26 years late on Dassault! Rafale is already open to new spectrum of weapons that are already feasible but not available due to international conventions (space kinetic strikes, Goldeneye, etc etc)

    "The payload of the F/A-XX will likely match or exceed the Super Hornet's payload"
    => Rafale already does...

    "Boeing unveiled an updated F/A-XX sixth-generation fighter concept in April 2013. The concept is a tailless twin-engine stealth fighter available in manned and unmanned configurations. It has canards, which usually compromises the frontal radar cross-section, but the lack of a tail shows an emphasis on all-aspect stealth."
    => Again, it shows how US are late! Rafale simply manages to lower its RCS by not using only RAMs but also RTMs : radar transparent materials, so is its tail is...

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/japan-uk-fighter-project-sign-closer-defense-partnership
     
    randomradio and PARIKRAMA like this.
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Nothing compared to the CPFH of operating just 36 Rafales. And only $21k for F-35A after FRP.

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page