Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

F 35 JSF v/s Dassault Rafale

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picdelamirand-oil, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    Pffff!
     
  2. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Realistic figures rather than development vs in-service costs.

    Also, even assuming $20k difference, $20k divides into $80m, 4000 times. More flying hours than any Rafale has clocked up to date, certainly more than per a/c average.
     
  3. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    Pfff! SAAB figures.
     
  4. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Well yes, the SAAB figure looks low.
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    And there is official figures now for Rafale. The figure in this report adress the first year of induction where there is only few plane flying and a lot of initial investment.
     
  6. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    I saw slightly higher figures for Rafale somewhere but there is no way you can look at pre-FRP CPFH and compared it to FOC CPFH.
     
  7. NKVD

    NKVD 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    417
    Country Flag:
    India
    Your Data Outdated and Old of year 2012 Don't Give future Projection My data is of 2015 Latest and
    According to air force cost-per-flight-hour (CPFH) data obtained by Flightglobal, the conventional takeoff and landing F-35 cost $42,200
    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...readiness-data-improves-in-2015-as-fl-421499/

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ut-overall-operating-costs-increase/82248008/
     
  8. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,024
    Likes Received:
    3,041
    Country Flag:
    United States
    JBLE Hosts Atlantic Trident 2017 (Typhoon to Train with F-22, F-35 In Virginia)
    (Source: US Air Force; issued March 24, 2017)
    [​IMG]
    A U.S. Air Force T-38 Talon, a Royal Air Force Typhoon, a French Air Force Rafale and a U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor fly during a Trilateral Exercise held at Langley in December 2015. This year, the F-35 will joint for the first time. (USAF photo)

    LANGLEY-EUSTIS, Va. --- U.S. Air Force Airmen will partner with the Royal Air Force and the French Air Force for a second trilateral exercise beginning April 12 through April 28, 2017, at Joint Base Langley-Eustis.

    Atlantic Trident 2017, hosted by the 1st Fighter Wing, focuses on air operations in a highly contested operational environment through a variety of complex, simulated adversary scenarios. The goal of the exercise is to enhance interoperability through combined coalition aerial campaigns.

    “This exercise was designed to encourage the sharing and development of air combat TTPs (tactics, techniques and procedures) with our French and U.K. partners, against a range of potential threats leveraging U.S. Air Force fifth-generation capabilities,” said U.S. Air Force Col. Peter Fesler, 1st Fighter Wing commander. “This is not only an opportunity to share the capabilities of the aircraft, pilots and maintainers between our nations, but to build friendship, trust and confidence that will improve our interoperability as we go forward.”



    While various exercises are held with allied and partner nations throughout the world, this exercise is one of the first to focus on greater integration of U.S. Air Force fifth-generation capabilities.

    Joint Base Langley-Eustis hosted a similar exercise in December 2015, but the upcoming exercise will be uniquely valuable with the addition of the F-35 Lightning II to the training.

    Atlantic Trident 2017 will feature the U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II; the RAF Eurofighter Typhoon; and the FAF Dassault Rafale. U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles and T-38 Talons will play the roles of adversary aircraft.

    U.S. Air Force E-3 Sentry and KC-10 Extender aircraft will also provide support during the exercise.

    Approximately 225 U.S. Air Force, 175 RAF and 150 FAF service members will participate in the exercise. While there will be more aircraft operating from Langley Air Force Base, operations will occur during daylight hours and the level of noise should be no different than normal.

    Source
     
  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,292
    Likes Received:
    2,286
    Main point of this exercise is coordination. Of course, there are always 1-2 days of "familiarisation" :crazy_pilot:
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    Thales Training Device Adapts To Pilot’s Physiological State

    http://aviationweek.com/aircraft-de...m=email&elq2=717ef843a9bc40c6b96722d61a44b53f
     
  11. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    The F-35A has not reached FRP yet, so there is no relevant figure. Development CPFH is irrelevant. Operating only 36 aircraft will have significant overheads on spares, logistics, training and equipment costs.
     
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    An other way to compare Rafale cost to F-35 cost

    According to the Finance Bill for 2015: Defense: equipment of the forces the total cost of Rafale program for 286 plane is € 46.4 billions or $ 49.6 Billions That's $ 173.6 Millions by plane
    According to Blumberg technology two hundred of the U.S. F-35 program have been delivered, and as of last year Congress had authorized about $110 billion in spending. That's $ 550 Millions by plane.

    But perhaps you think it's not fair play to compare a 286 production to a 200 production? In this case is it fair play to compare a 2443 production to a 286 production?
    But ok let's look at the fly away cost of the Rafale to compute the total cost for 200 planes.
    Rafale B: € 73 millions
    Rafale C: € 68 millions
    Rafale M: € 78 millions
    So roughly € 71 millions because there is more Rafale C. Then 86 Rafale is € 6.106 billions or $ 6.533 billions and total cost of 200 Rafale is 49.6 -6.6= $ 43 billions,that's $ 215 millions by plane

    And the conclusion is $ 215 millions versus $ 550 millions

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...e-overruns-are-now-past-pentagon-s-chief-says
    http://www.senat.fr/rap/a14-110-8/a14-110-818.html#toc288
     
  13. BMD

    BMD Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Irrelevant. At the end of the day the unit cost is lower for the higher volume aircraft. And there is no STOVL Rafale either. And then you have inflation. The Rafale project started 15-20 years early.
     
  14. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    15,242
    Likes Received:
    2,329
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Of course one
    F35 is worth
    15 Rafales.
     
  15. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,871
    Likes Received:
    5,623
    Country Flag:
    France
    Yes if you take into account the LCC cost it will be like that.
     

Share This Page