F-35 Lightning II : News & Discussions

Discussion in 'U.S. & Europe' started by Picard, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. R!CK
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    R!CK 2nd Lieutant THINK TANK

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    Canada will end up choosing the SH-18 as part of the competition too, with an immediate order of 18 SH-18 decided, they might not really decide on a different aircraft to make up the rest of the fleet. Lets also remember, SH-18 is the only aircraft that will cost them minimum investment for infrastructure and pilot conversions.

    With an existing infrastructure for F/A-18s and a local engine manufacturer for F-35, the competition in Canada will not be as tight as it seems to be.

    A bit of background information on Royal Canadian Air Force fighter fleet:

    McDonnell Douglas CF-188A & B
    1982-1988 : 98 CF-188A and 40 CF-188B Inducted (138 Total)
    2001-2010 : 62 CF-188A and 18 CF-188B Upgraded (80 Total)
    Current : 60 CF-188A and 17 CF-188B (77 Total)​

    [​IMG]
    _____
    Canada will continue participation in the Joint Strike Fighter Program until at least a contract award for the permanent fleet. This will allow Canada to maximize benefits of the partnership and gives Canada the option to buy the aircraft through the program, should the F-35 be successful in the competitive process for the permanent fleet.


    http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do...=1158669&_ga=1.51663721.1594599849.1472657568
     
  2. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    80 million : Without engine. And without any warranty on performance.

    I expect at least one extinguisher is supplied with the engine.....

    Rafale C : 95 euros million. with its two engines. And no plane was found in fire....
     
  3. R!CK
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    R!CK 2nd Lieutant THINK TANK

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    Come on lets be fair, its still under development. Its not like Rafale didn't have 5 crashes. These things happen, lets not say things just for the sake of it. With the volumes in scale, F-35 will definitely have lower price tags, its a fact. That doesn't mean they could have a lower operational cost.

    If I'm to go blind on facts, interesting info here:

    The official record also shows a 48.5% availability for France's Dassault Rafale fighter fleet in 2015 (93 aircraft in service with the air force) with a budgeted maintenance cost of EUR343.90 million (USD364.56 million). The Mirage 2000D is suffering from extensive use in operations 'Chammal' (against the Islamic State) and 'Barkhane' (Sahel area), with a low availability rate of 32.90%.

    Although older (23 years on average against 18 years for the 2000D), France's remaining Mirage 2000C and 2000B (15 and 7 aircraft) show a correct 45.6% availability. The total cost of maintenance for the Mirage 2000 fleet (150 aircraft of different versions in total) amounted to EUR309.80 million in 2015.


    http://www.janes.com/article/65752/french-c-130-hercules-fleet-suffering-low-availability-rates

    But there are facts and explanations for everything, French units are under operational missions and that will definitely bring down availability. Similarly, a new aircraft type is bound to have many issues, whats relevant is how these limitations are overcome. Only time will tell.

    P.S: I'm still a Rafale fanboy, but that doesn't mean I can talk outside facts.

    Good Day!
     
  4. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    FACTS, only facts :
    1) Crashs : on this 5, just one crash due to failure. The 5 : One in the air force following pilot disorientation. 1 Rafale M lost after a dog fight (lost of power, plane too low so pilot eject). 1 Rafale M lost after a pilot error during in flight fill in. 2 rafale M crash after in air collision (very skilled test pilots flying too near...).
    2) Availability. It's only a question of support (as for NH90 and Tiger helo and Leclerc MBT) , so only a question of money.... These datas are for Rafale in France. Availability for detachment is very high.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  5. R!CK
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    R!CK 2nd Lieutant THINK TANK

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    Again, my intention was not to put Rafale on the burner. My point is, we have to be less critical about aircraft that are only getting introduced to service. We Indians know it cause of our Tejas. Despite all the negativity around the project, F-35 will eventually have a bigger production run than any other 5th generation aircraft only because it has a bigger customer profile and backing from the biggest defense MIC in the world. Even the F-16 program doesn't have a trouble free start up to boast of, and they ended up selling over 4000? I'd say lets wait till F-35 becomes fully operational and then its a fair game to do all the comparing and criticism.

    Good Day!
     
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  6. Picdelamirand-oil
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    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel STRATEGIST

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    In the French Air Force and Navy, there are 2 different availability rate :
    - DT (disponibilité technique/technical availability) is the availability rate with regard to the entire existing fleet.
    - DTO (disponibilité technique opérationelle/ operational technical availability) is the ratio between the number of aircraft available and the number of aircraft needed to achieve the planned activity, that is to say the ability to achieve the operational goal, the mission.

    The first indicator, DT, is generally around 50% for the Air Force and actually around 30% for the Navy. This is not because there are maintenance issues on the Rafale fleet, this is simply because a part of the existing fleet is not immediately needed to achieve the operational contract: ie a 100 percent DTO rate.

    France did not need 100 or 150 Rafale immediately available for training and air policing; thus, over a year, a part of the fleet, usually composed of the aircraft that have, at the moment, the highest number of flight hours, is temporarily parked or even sometimes temporarily mothballed at Chateaudun air base. (Similarly, there are no specific maintenance problems with Rafale M, the difference (DT) between Air Force and Navy is mainly due to the ongoing modernization of 10 Rafale F1)

    Each country has its own constraints. What is really important and significant is to achieve a high DTO rate. And especially during real operations (like Lybia, Mali ...) when all committed aircraft must operate at maximum efficiency over long periods. In that case the availability rate for the Rafale is close to 100%.
    http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/pdf/budget/plf2013/a0256-tvi.pdf

    It's an official paper, it's in French, but look page 29 there is a table showing DT and DTO.
     
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  7. Picdelamirand-oil
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    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel STRATEGIST

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  8. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Trump Slams 'Out Of Control' F-35



    Donald Trump left the collective defense community quaking in its boots last week after he threatened to cancel Boeing's new Air Force one. Now he's going after another massive aerospace firm, slamming Lockheed Martin's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) for "out of control" costs.

    "Look at the F-35 program with the money, the hundreds of billions of dollars," Trump said on Fox news Dec. 11. "It's out of control."

    http://aviationweek.com/blog/trump-...m=email&elq2=e29b09fc31034bec99863f8dfe7f7a9e
     
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  9. Gessler
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    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yep, he tweeted it too.



    @PARIKRAMA @randomradio @Abingdonboy @vstol jockey
     
  10. Gessler
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    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  11. randomradio
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    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  12. Agent_47
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    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Averageamerican
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    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    No one knows what Trump is going to do, and what he says has nothing to do with it.
     
  14. Picdelamirand-oil
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    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel STRATEGIST

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    The last time you said something on him you said he will not win the white house.
     
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  15. Picdelamirand-oil
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    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel STRATEGIST

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    He seems to confirm what he has already said:

    http://dodbuzz.com/2016/12/16/trump-air-force-one-f-35-revolving-door/
     

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