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F-35 Lightning II : News & Discussions

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Scorpion82

    Scorpion82 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    That article proves neither of your assertions. The 145 km figure has been stated in a 2003 special issue for the Eurofighter Typhoon from AI/AFM at a time when the real sensor was in an early development stage and it hasn't proven that performance at all. From where I know it? I'm actually the original author of that article, which in fact is just passage out of a report that I have written, for the fun writting, about the Typhoon. The original report was created by myself in a month in 2002 and was a 64 pages report that I have published for free as a pdf. I kept it updated and rereleased it multiple times until 2005 before I decided to remove it from the net. By that time it has grown to about 100 pages. Three years later I discovered this article that you just linked too which was published an Austrian Lt.Col. I've contacted him and was actually surprised through which channels he obtained it, but that's yet another story. Of course I still have the original report which covers the entire aircraft and programme, but which is outdated now and a farcry from what I actually know about this aircraft today.
     
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  2. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones Doctor Death Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    @Picard

    From the same source. :crazy_pilot:

    As i said before, in real world scenario IRST won't cross 60 km.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  3. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    @Scorpion82 I also have a RAND report from 2008 which states 90 km detection range against subsinic fighters from front for PIRATE and 50 km for OLS-35. As OLS-35 has range of 90 km from rear (from the same report), it is easy to calculate that range for PIRATE is around 150 km mark from rear. It is possible that PIRATE has been upgraded since then, but any upgrade would only increase range.

    How do you get 60 kilometers from that?

    And yes, performance of IRST varies significantly depending on situation, but so does performance of radar, and performance of anything else. That way, I could say that BVR missiles won't pass 8% Pk (or 1%, to pull number out of my a** as you are seemingly doing), yet we know that it depends on how good EW suite enemy has, and does enemy even bother to evade missiles... no EW suite + not bothering to evade missiles... and per-missile Pk jumps to 46%!
     
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  4. Scorpion82

    Scorpion82 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

     
  5. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"


    It's the claim that the F-22 will be detected through its heat signature at long ranges made by the esteemed resident radar-hater that I'm questioning, Skull-Sahib, not your figures themselves. :LMAO:



    Enough to be able to laugh at a pathetic attempt at a come-back when I see one.


    And the broken record begins playing once more. Rather than provide a coherent counter or evidence to the contrary, you decide that spewing the same old rubbish will somehow prove your point.



    Which would be a pertinent point if we were addressing non-VLO optimised aircraft.


    Again you fail to understand the point. Yes, the F-22 generates heat, but the heat is masked and dispersed in ways that severly reduce chance of detection at longer ranges. No one said it would be completely invisible at all ranges, but that it would be practically invisible beyond a certain range. Good gravy, banging one's head repeatedly against a wall would achieve more than trying to get you to open your eyes.

    Take the exhaust system: the jet exhaust is hot, but volumes of cold air are used to surround the exhaust to reduce detection. Again, it won't be invisible, and certainly not at closer ranges, but at longer ranges it will be very hard to detect for even current generation IRST systems.

    And stop ignoring what has been said about atmospheric affects on IRST detection. Everything from moisture content of the atmosphere to attenuation of infrared radiation can mess with an IRST systems detection at long ranges.

    Long ranges + masked emissions = VERY LOW CHANCE OF DETECTION.


    Already been debunked. Apparently you didn't read that "info-page" so much as you skimmed it looking for range figures.


    And of course, Gripen is the best aircraft in the world because your government is considering buying it. If it had been the Typhoon or the Rafale, a completely different song would've been plaguing us right now. And because its the Gripen, canard-deltas are the best layout for aircraft and the most manoeuvrable and high wing loading and blah blah blah.

    Before you accuse others of favouritism, try finding a mirror to look into that wouldn't crack at your reflection.
     
  6. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    When you have a hallucination of one is more like it.

    If you don't know what shock cone, air friction and internal heat are, we don't have anything to talk about.

    VLO-optimised aircraft are no better.

    What you are saying is equivalent to claiming that elephant is invisible against jungle because its head has been painted green!

    And again, jet exhaust is only one of heat sources, and one that is largely irrelevant for frontal detection.

    And using radar makes enemy detecting you a certainity. Besides, stealth fighter's normal area of operations is in very cold and dry environment, well above normal cloud level.

    Yes, if you fly passive and find some clouds you can hide. But that reduces F-22 to a level of aircraft from WW2, limited to visual detection.

    Against IRST? No, unless, as mentioned, you have some clouds handy.

    I never said it is the best, and in fact I have complained about its shortcomings quite a few times already (lacking sensors suite, bad cockpit design, not enough thrust, low fuel fraction). But of course, why let facts stand in a way of imaginations? [​IMG]

    Different in what way? Gripen is not best fighter one-on-one, but it is relatively cheap, easy to maintain and reliable, meaning that it can swarm opponents. Both Typhoon and Rafale are better one-on-one, but they cost more and can generate fewer sorties.

    Canard deltas are the best because they are best for maneuvering. But you obviously don't know a thing about aerodynamics.

    All I see here are your delusions... I have in fact changed my favorite aircraft a lot of times in last few years - it was, in order, F-15, F-22, F-15, F-16, F-22, F-16, F-22, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen - and all of it was with a good reason, as I researched air combat and aerodynamics. So I have a perfectly fine mirror and healthy reflection in this case...
     
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  7. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones Doctor Death Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    Oh Boy! Where this thread is going. :troll:
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    Looks like US has developed a new air to air missile called CUDA twelve of them will fit into the F22 and F35.
     
  9. grond

    grond Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    [​IMG]
    This is it I guess .... Consensus is that its a desperate attempt at making the f35 better ... No word yet on guidance... Although it seems to be a radar beam rider ...
     
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  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    Thats the USA for you allways makeing things better. In the dead of night, a plane that cant be detected with 12 deadly air to air missiles 75 or hundred miles range, not something that many airforces are going to be willing to take on. Enemy air planes exploding all around and they dont even know from which direction they are being attacked.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    CUDA will triple the missile load of the F22 and F35, but at a shorter range but still well outside the dectable range of the F22 and F35 at the present level of technology. AWACS and Tankers are being equipped with air to air missiles also. Missiles can be fired to a predetermined point where an optical system takes over and guides it to a target, prevents jamming.
     
  12. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    Only in your dreams, only in your dreams...
     
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  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    The least detectable plane is allways going to have the advantage and the combat power with the CRUD missile tripled the combat power of the F22 and F35.
     
  14. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    On IRST, F-35 is about as undetectable as 707... F-22 may be a shade better from the rear.
     
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  15. Tailchopper

    Tailchopper Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Re: On F-35 export "success"

    The notion that just because its undetectable [Which is plain BS] - it will never have to fight in a close in dogfight is just a disastrous exaggeration. It WILL come into dogfight and when it does, it cant run, it cant maneuver, it cant hide. Jets like the F-16s or F/18s will rape this trillion dollar bad boy in an unprofessional way.
     
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