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F-INSAS : Indias Future Infantry Soldier Project

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Manmohan Yadav, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. AccessDenied

    AccessDenied Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Methinks its an integrated flashlight.
     
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  2. sivachandan

    sivachandan REGISTERED

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    first they will experiment with 3 battalions by 2015 later equipping entire army by 2020 :cheers:
     
  3. Bismarck

    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    It is Israeli Corner shot, This has a small optical camera in front (what you think is grenade launcher)
    On front top you can see a semi automatic pistol perched on top, the shiny ejection port can be seen,
    The Chinese officer, his right hand is on the trigger which on pulling will pull the trigger on the pistol and he is using the lever which has you can change from Angled to straight position. He is looking at the screen image where the gun is pointing based on what the camera is seeing (the one at the front of the assembly)

    This is Israeli cornershot system it is just system, you have to put your own gun for that though
     
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  4. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    i think at least every soldier is 12th aren't they???? and if they are then these thinks have nothing to do with theoretical knowledge all it takes is few days with it and they are good to go.....practical knowledge!!!:cheers:
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    10th standard. Almost all of them come from towns and villages.
     
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  6. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    really???????, i didnt know.......
     
  7. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    then it will pose some challenges because although they have equipment but cannot use it to its full potential then what is the use of it they all must be trained to use these asap because if we started to train them after these equipment is supplied its will result in waste of time.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    No. They can all be trained to use modern equipment. It is not necessary that they need 2 extra years of listening to mumbo-jumbo to use military equipment.
     
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  9. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Indian Army to Break up Future Soldier Program into Two Parts

    The Indian Army has decided to junk the Future Infantry Soldier As a System (F-INSAS) program in favor of two separate projects.

    The new program will have two components: one arming the modern infantry soldier with the best available assault rifle, carbines and personal equipment such as the helmet and bulletproof vests and the second component is the Battlefield Management Systems (BMS).

    Observers say that the bifurcation has been done on account of the budgetary convenience.

    In the BMS category goes all the communication and optical equipment of a modern soldier which includes palm-top communication equipment and the helmet mounted cameras. The assault weapon field trials are going on: there are four kinds, Baretta (Italy), Colt (USA), Bren (Czech) and Tavor (Israel). The last has already been chosen for Indian Special Forces.

    Vice Chief of Army staff, Lt General Philip Campose, told our correspondentat the end of the media interaction, “There is no F-INSAS program any more”.

    He detailed how the army adopted the program in a way that keeps the infantry soldier less burdened by technology, and more agile to carry out his tasks.

    Indian Army to Break up Future Soldier Program into Two Parts
     
  10. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    India Capitulates To Infantry Demands

    January 27, 2015: In response to the growing combat losses because of flaws in the locally made INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) 5.56mm assault rifle, the Indian government seems likely to capitulate and allow the military to get a rifle that works. Unfortunately for nationalist politicians, this will probably be a foreign rifle, and the leading candidate is Israeli.

    This all began in the 1980s when there was growing clamor for India to design and build its own weapons. This included something as basic as the standard infantry rifle. At that time soldiers and paramilitary-police units were equipped with a mixture of old British Lee-Enfield bolt action (but still quite effective) rifles and newer Belgian FALs (sort of a semi-automatic Lee-Enfield) plus a growing number of Russian AK-47s. The rugged and reliable Russian assault rifle was most popular with its users.

    In the late 1980s India began developing a family of 5.56mm infantry weapons (rifle, light machine-gun and carbine). Called the INSAS, the state owned factories were unable to produce the quantities required (and agreed to). Worse, the rifles proved fragile and unreliable. The design was poorly thought out and it is believed corruption played a part because the INSAS had more parts than it needed and cost over twice as much to produce as the AK-47.

    The original plan was to equip all troops with INSAS weapons by 1998. Never happened, although troops began to receive the rifle in 1998. By 2000 half the required weapons ordered were still not manufactured. Moreover in 1999 the INSAS weapons got their first real combat workout in the Kargil campaign against Pakistan. While not a complete failure, the nasty weather that characterized that battle zone high in the frigid mountains saw many failures as metal parts sometimes cracked from the extreme cold. Troops complained that they were at a disadvantage because their Pakistani foes could fire on full automatic with their AK-47s while the INSAS rifles had only three bullet burst mode (which, fortunately, sometimes failed and fired more than three bullets for each trigger pull.) What was most irksome about this was that the INSAS rifles were the same weight, size and shape as the AK-47 but cost about $300 each, while AK-47s could be had for less than half that. The INSAS looked like the AK-47 because its design was based on that weapon.

    The Indians persevered, tweaking the design and improving the manufacturing process. Now, after nearly two decades the INSAS weapons are gaining acceptance. Nearly 400,000 have been delivered so far. Compared to most 5.56mm rifles on the market, INSAS has a price advantage and India is looking for export customers. But so far, only three small nations showed interest, and that was more for political reasons than for military ones. The major export customer (Nepal) got them at a huge discount and quickly found Nepalese troops demanding a replacement rifle because the INSAS was fatally unreliable.

    In the decade following the Kargil debacle INSAS rifles also malfunctioned in several highly publicized incidents involving the leftist (Maoist) rebels increasingly active in eastern India. Responding to the continuing performance and reliability problems some changes were made but most Indian users want a better rifle. The military had been conducting a competition since 2013 and a winner (either the Israeli ACE or the similar Italian Beretta ARX-160) is likely to be selected in 2015.

    The ACE is the current Israeli assault rifle and is one of a long line of excellent weapons. It is combat proven, comes in many sizes and calibers and, compared to similar INSAS models it is lighter and easier to use and maintain. Beretta is an experienced weapons designer and manufacturer and they went to great lengths to make the ARX-160 a capable and reliable weapon. The fact that it and ACE are the last two weapons left in the competition demonstrates that. The Israelis have an edge in combat experience with their weapons and have been selling more weapons to India than Italy. This is supposed to be a corruption-free competition, so the size of potential bribes should not be a factor. The outcome of this will be interesting, but either way the current users if INSAS come out a winner and more likely to survive their next battle.

    Weapons: India Capitulates To Infantry Demands
     
  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    BEL’s ‘future’ soldier is wired and smart
    Published February 26, 2015
    SOURCE: THE HINDU

    [​IMG]



    A gun-toting soldier, “fully loaded” and wearing an ultra-thick vest, an “electronic” backpack and an unusual wrist band and helmet, stood prominently during the recent Aero India exposition here.

    The life-size early model of the “intelligent soldier” is kitted out with a dozen communication and intelligence devices. Put in a war zone, he can connect with commanders in real time and is fully aware of his own moves and those of his team and enemy.

    e-enabled, intelligent

    Such an e-enabled intelligent soldier has no market on its own, but can eventually be part of a complete system for battle or security forces, said S.K. Sharma, Chairman and Managing Director of Bharat Electronics Ltd, which is its developer.

    Future battlefield programmes, Mr. Sharma said, will need the smart soldier as a crucial entity.

    BEL started developing the soldier elements two years ago and has demonstrated the prototype to potential users.

    Battlefield management

    The defence electronics company has also bid for a comprehensive, networked Battlefield Management System (BMS) for the Army, along with software company Rolta India, Bengaluru. Evaluation is on for the project, which is worth several thousand crores of rupees, and which involves half a dozen contenders.

    The BMS is a ‘Make’ project funded up to 80 per cent by the government. It may be a couple of years before we know who will get to do it.
     
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  12. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    NSG's 'future soldier' programme to be revived with Make-in-India twist
    Kamaljit Kaur Sandhu New Delhi, Monday, January 9 2017


    The National Security Guard, India's special forces unit, plans to revive its 'future soldier' programme, which was shelved in 2013 due to logistics issues. The renewed project comes with a Make-in-India twist, as the elite force has roped in DRDO and IIT-Mumbai to give a final shape to the soldier prototype.

    About 40 countries are working on similar programmes, including US, UK, France, Germany, Russia and Israel, that entails future ground warfare and survivability in diverse terrains. While the West has a clear head start on such projects, India is aiming to achieve the mission by 2025.

    "Yes, we are working on reviving the future soldier project," NSG director general Sudhir Pratap Singh told Mail Today. However, Singh refused to divulge more details of the project.

    Originally mooted in 2011, after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attack in 2008, the project was assigned to Bharat Electronic Ltd (BEL) but lost steam midway as costs of making of one unit of armour escalated. Sources said the BEL did come up with a prototype, with a whopping cost of Rs 12-13 crore for 30 soldiers.

    However, a renewed commitment of the current dispensation with Make-in-India factor has given the 'future soldier' project a fresh thrust. A senior officer in the NSG described the project as "more promising and result oriented".

    Lauding the indigenous push, former NSG DG Arvind Ranjan, who was part of the programme during his tenure in 2012, said it is important to develop indigenous programme as no country will share top secret project of this kind.

    "I travelled to many countries (to study such projects), but they were willing to share only rudimentary technology," Ranjan said. "We have the best soldiers in the world, and if they are provided with the best technology, it will act as a force multiplier."

    Comparing the project with US Navy Seals raiding party in 2011, R K Medhekar, also a former DG of the force, said once the commandos get advanced devices fitted to their body, NSG operations could be viewed real time by commanding officers as was in the case during the raid on Osama.

    The world watched in bated breath as US Navy Seals swooped down on Abbottabad in a stealth helicopter killing the 9/11 mastermind Osama Bin Laden, with live pictures being simultaneously broadcast to a control room in White House.

    Medhekar said a lot of progress has been made in equipments since NSG's first project was shelved. "Now we have non-reflective goggles, night-vision glasses and communication on encrypted codes."

    He said the idea of camera on top is to ensure that the soldier is not distracted by reporting back. "It had other advantages to know location of self and team mates. In the last project too, DRDO was working on a lighter uniform with GPS devices. But cost overruns took a toll. Experts said the project aims to equip our soldier with high-tech weapons to undertake specialised operations through land, air and water.

    "We need mobility, lethality, survivability in our forces on par with world's best forces," major general (retired) P K Sehgal told Mail Today

    Link-
    http://m.indiatoday.in/story/nsg-future-soldier-revivedmake-in-india/1/852713.html
     
  13. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Forget F-INSAS, I have no clue where it is and where it's going. But let me put forward my views about how the future Indian Army infantry soldier should be outfitted - I'll be breaking down the list into three components; 1) Apparel, 2) Protection & Combat Utility and finally 3) Firepower. A lot of this might seem over the top but could be a standard thing for most big armies by the mid-2020s. Anyone is free to add/correct my views as they deem necessary...

    Apparel

    Camoflague -

    The current DPM camouflague, which to me seems like a cross between the US M81 Woodland & the French Centre Europe (CE)-type pattern, while nothing extraordinary, works just fine IMO. Variations of this DPM (not sure if that's officially the name or the terminology is copied over from UK) are in use, including those in use in the Western theatre (with an emphasis on tan/khaki backgrounds), and those in use in most other regions (heavier use of green).

    [​IMG]

    However, I'm of the opinion that IA should move on to completely different color schemes to better suit the environment a particular Corps/regional Command is expected to fight. Toward that end, I'd recommend the use of either a MultiCam or MARPAT as the base pattern, and adopt different variations as per need/theatre.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    If using MultiCam, the base type would be O.K. as the basic Army field uniform. It'd be good with personnel under Army HQ (airborne forces), Eastern, Southern, Northern, Central as well as the Training Command. MC Arid would be good for the Western theatre (i.e. any Corps operating in the states of Rajasthan, Gujarat, Punjab. Like those of Western & South-Western Commands). MC Alpine can be useful for troops in the Siachen/Ladakh regions, although a plain white top with normal MultiCam/DPM pants, or even a full-white apparel like those in use now aren't bad either. MC Tropic & Black are largely unnecessary for the IA.

    [​IMG]

    With MARPAT, the Woodland & Desert types can easily fulfill all of IA's possible needs. A wide range of MARPAT-inspired schemes are already in widespread use by CAPFs like CRPF CoBRA and other MHA units like Punjab Police SWAT, while also seen worn by Para-SF from time to time - These are different from the UCP-inspired scheme used by MARCOS & SPB, which was apparently imported from a Taiwanese company.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    However if you ask me to choose between the two, I'd pick the MultiCam any day...it's easily one of the best camoflague schemes in use today anywhere in the world. It would be a considerable improvement to IA's colors in everything from vegetation-rich to arid environments, using the same basic pattern scheme.

    [​IMG]

    However, I would still say a change in camo should be one of the least of IA's concerns. Increase in individual protection & communications should be the primary goal to achieve by a 2025 timeframe.

    Uniform Utility -

    The camoflague is only one piece of the Apparel puzzle. The other part is the all-important design & inherent utilities of the uniform, can be alternatively called Battle/Tactical Dress Uniform (B/TDU), depending on model. This includes -

    • Storage spaces. While current uniform does provide a number of pockets in several regions, I see a great variety as in some have and some don't. There needs to be more uniformity in the uniform, and that includes having multiple pockets on the chest/torso, arms, & legs. Everything from papers & maps to solid objects like pens, batteries, food items & electronics should be comfortably carried as per need. Though most of these are not meant to be carried on the uniform itself, these pockets allow the soldier to store critical items even if a Molle-based pouches are not available. Velcro should be used wherever possible, avoid buttons at all costs.
    • Put-on/Put-off ease. While infantry troops usually stay in uniform most of the time (at least that's how it is now), I think it should be allowed for them to roam in their underlying T-shirts (or inner vest, if they're in a hot climate) while not having an active task at hand. In such cases, the uniform must be designed as such that it can be quickly be worn with minimal hassle when the time comes. A similar point can be made for the opposite. The clothes might catch fire, get irradiated or present any number of hazards should the body remain in contact with them for a minute more than necessary while out in the field and in tricky situations. Taking it off should be equally easy. A zip & velcro-based fastening of the uniform would present great advantages over the current buttoned shirts.
    • ID Patches. A velcro-based arm patch system should be seriously looked at. The current tags appear like they're from WW2 or before. Details such as their unit & Command can be easily attached or taken off so it's not necessary to sew everything into the uniform every time something changes. This would also allow one to attach certain utilities to his shoulder, if he needs to.

    The US Army ACU can serve as a good model -

    [​IMG]

    While I'd definitely love to see a Gen3 combat dress (which comes with an extra layer of cloth over the joints with cut-out spaces for slipping in elbow & knee pads), I'm not sure if it'd be necessary. However, these slip-on pads do present certain advantages wrt to weight & blood flow over traditional pads that wrap around the whole joint and can become pretty uncomfortable over extended periods of taking to the knees, or while holding up the weapon to aim down the sights in extended, drawn-out engagements. So far I've seen only top-tier Special Forces of the world adopt the these uniforms, but hey, the IA is a huge Army with a major modernization drive left to fulfill...if we want to lead the way, let's do so. Locally-made versions should be nowhere as costly as import from global suppliers like Crye Precision anyway.

    [​IMG]

    Alternatively, a largely cloth-based wraparound with velcro straps like this can be bought...

    [​IMG]
    Damascus Neoprene-series

    ...more comfortable than belt strap-fastened pads, and can be worn over any pant. But that will increase the total number of components you have to purchase. Another thing is that G3 shirts lose much of their camoflaging capability unless you wear a Vest as mandatory (because of the clear chest/torso region), it also removes a lot of the shirt storage spaces otherwise available on ACU-type tops.

    Ideal scenario? Need to make a fully-camoflagued shirt torso with pockets & spaces for elbow-pad inserts, to go with a proper G3 pant. I don't think coming up with a new shirt design that incorporates the best of both worlds would be that difficult for the world's 2nd-largest textile industry. But make no mistake, our industry has disappointed me in more ways than one, many times in the past.

    Another option would be to just junk all this advanced stuff, and just go with your run-of-the-mill tactical knee/elbow pads, like those already used by NSG, Paras, MARCOS and others, and adopt a clean ACU-based uniform design -

    [​IMG]

    Pads should ideally come under Protection, not Apparel, however I had to include these as they seemed to form an integral part of the choice of the uniform-type.

    ++

    I don't see any issues with the IA's footwear. The newer green shoes appear to be an improvement over the old black leathers. Superior grip, safety from elements & comfort. However only one who has actually worn these shoes would be able to tell how good or bad they are, or who makes them -

    [​IMG]
    In exercise Shakti with French Army (right) in 2013

    Protection & Combat Utility (including pouches & everything) will be covered in Part-2 ...

    @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @randomradio @PARIKRAMA @vstol jockey @Agent_47 @Levina @Grevion @Darth Marr @AbRaj @VCheng
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  14. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    F-INSAS is offically dead bro, it was split 3-4 years ago into componant parts (BMS and personal equipment), one side (BMS) is moving ahead but the other seems to be stuck.

    As for your ideas, I have always advocated the adoption of a new generation of combat uniforms that have a vareity of designs optimised to the enourmous range of areas the IA is deployed. The current "one fit all" solution is beyond absurd, seeing soldiers running around the desert in WOODLAND uniform is a cause for great despair.

    But these are details, the IA is still yet to provide even basic equipment such as proper helmets and plate carriers. We are dreaming to start looking at Multicam.
     
  15. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Don't worry I'll be covering the critical items like helmets & chest rigs in Part-2. Just wanted to get the most basic stuff like uniform out of the way first.

    I did hear about the BMS projects going ahead, but I know very little about the equipment carried by individuals as part of this (like Software-defined radios, wrist-mounted computers (if any), etc.) so that's something I won't be able to cover in this series. I'd love to learn more about this and come out with a Part-4 about this stuff sometime.

    Another thing which comes as a dangerous realization is actually how cheap this personal equipment is, when compared with big-ticket purchases like tanks or missiles. If the money is spent properly, we can easily attain a much higher level of infantry soldier equipment. Proper & prompt choice & management is the problem.

    Also, what about MREs? I don't think I've ever seen IA pushing around ready-to-eat rations. This could be a serious drawback if we don't sort our food out properly.
     
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