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F-INSAS : Indias Future Infantry Soldier Project

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Manmohan Yadav, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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  2. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Nice vid! First real look inside MKU's production facilities I had.

    Confirms a lot of things we already knew - however I'm as of yet uncertain whether the ACH-2000 model we're getting for the infantry will have a Bolt-Free shell or not. ACH helmets usually have ballistic bolts which, when hit, are designed to break up into two large pieces (bolt head remains outside/falls off and the shaft remains inside the shell), and not necessarily fragment into several dangerous pieces. However I'm not sure if this practice is followed by all makers of the ACH type or only a few. Either way, an entirely bolt-free shell is better any day of the week. With a system like MACS in place, bolts are unnecessary (although I still question myself why other manufacturers are not following this idea?).

    Also, it seems the base design will remain ACH-2000, and while the regular infantry get a no-frills version, the CO of each unit is given an integrated communication system + side-rails and NV mount. Not exactly how I'd want it to be but it's a start. Note that he said there will be PROVISION for mounting flashlights/cams (i.e. rails will be there), but the actual equipment itself isn't ordered yet. Makes sense I guess - no need to hold up the critical helmet requirement for sake of components that can be easily integrated down the line.

    Another nice tidbit is the MKU rep's statement that a newer helmet based on the ECH design is in the works. Biggest change in the ECH is probably the use of thermoplastics in place of ballistic fiber, leading to much-improved protection levels even against rifle-caliber rounds. Hope Army adopts the MKU ECH when it appears. Physical appearance & dimensions-wise, it should be no different to the ACH so that's a plus.

    Only thing is that I hope both MKU & Army paid close attention to the sizes of the helmets they procure - hope they obtained an average based on measurements of several soldiers' heads - and that helmets of several sizes are available outright.
     
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  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Right but would imagine that all SF operators would get the fully spec'd up versions from the outset.
     
  4. Vergennes

    Vergennes Strategist Staff Member MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @Gessler @Abingdonboy

    Is this the new Indian army helmet ? Pictures are from a recent exercise between the Chinese and Indian armies. I've never seen this model before.

    z1.jpg
    z2.jpg
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    z4.jpg
     
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  5. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Yes, only some units have adopted it so far (based on ACH-2000 design).

    These pictures were on the internet for a while - you can go to Page 10 of this thread from where onward I did a series of posts explaining what I think IA infantry should be like in the future, and how it's going to be - I think on Page 11 or something I also covered this pics.
     
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  6. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I believe it is helmets from Kanpur-based company MKU Industries has been contracted by the Indian Army and asked to manufacture a total of 1.58 lakh military helmets recently. on closer inspection can see its distant ear side slight elevation, with 2 screw spots on each side, to support add on integrated support.
    The helmets pic below with Integrated Support to Wearable Systems, for special or future operations, minus rubber padding in corners to holdin camouflage cloth covering on helmet.
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    COIMBATORE: From the mountainous terrains of the sensitive northeastern border to the Kutch desert bordering Pakistan, Indian soldiers keep us safe while trying their best to stay alive. Camouflage clothing play a big part in protecting both personnel and equipment from observation by enemy forces. How about a combat uniform that can change colours like a chameleon, depending on the terrain the soldier is in? Well, that could soon be a reality, thanks to a city-based scientist.

    "If they move to a desert, the garment will slowly start changing its colour. The light and dark green will turn into yellow when the temperature crosses 55°C. Once the soldiers return to the plains, the light and dark green colour will return. This will help battalions that have to immediately move to new terrains and will save cost for the defence ministry," says Amitava Bhattacharya, a scientist with the Coimbatore-based PSG Institute of Advanced Studies.

    Having pursued his PhD in developing camouflages for defence purposes, Amitava is a winner of the 3rd National Award for Technology Innovation for the year 2012-13, announced by the ministry of chemicals and fertilizers, under the category of research in the field of polymer science and technology. He has developed two types of camouflage materials that are now under consideration for mass production by the Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO). While one can be used for making textiles, the other can be used to cover objects and structures.

    "This is called chameleon camouflaging," Amitava says. "There are three types of camouflaging - visual, infrared and radar. My work includes all the three areas. The first product that I have developed is a textile made of nanocomposite materials. That is a flexible product, that can be bent and folded. It is dyed with a mix of four colours - black, yellow, light and dark green. The dyes are a mix of natural and synthetic materials," he told TOI.

    The material for hiding structures and objects is a rigid material. "It has coatings on both sides. On the top, it is coated with paints made of nanocomposite materials. These will change colours depending on the temperature. The other side of the component is made of radar absorbent materials (RAM). These materials have the property of absorbing the infrared radiation and converting it into thermal energy. The minimum requirement set by the defence ministry is 95% absorption, 99% is considered ideal. The material I developed can absorb IR up to 16GHz frequency. It can be used to cover small buildings, guns, tanks and artilleries. There are many RAM available in the market, but I have developed my own composition," says Amitava.

    PSG is currently funding his research. "At present DRDO has given green signal for the work. I am also designing the plan to scale up production," he says.

    The technology has many civilian applications also. "Think about a tie that changes colour from green to yellow as you step out of the air-conditioned office. Or a sari that shows off a different hue the moment you enter a wedding hall. The possibilities are endless," he adds.

    57442002.jpg
     
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  8. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Uh oh. Looks like another UCP is in the making. Honestly, nice work and all but, we'd rather make two or more camo schemes off normal fabric and hand them out to forces based on their Corps' deployment regions. Like normal MultiCam for vegetation and MultiCam Arid for deserts.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Livefist's coverage on Army's new helmets (thanks to @SHIV AROOR ) -

    UP CLOSE: Indian Army’s 1st New Combat Helmets In 25 Years



    Starting this August, Indian Army fighting units on the Line of Control and in the Kashmir Valley get to add a most rudimentary piece of equipment to their arsenal, one that won’t just offer them better protection, but free them up significantly for more potent combat.

    Because let’s face it, for all the consternation over stalled modernization of Indian Army’s weapons regiments, it’s easy to miss the comparable — or worse — delays in addressing that most basic of needs: personal combat protection for infantry soldiers. Thankfully, as you probably know, there’s been some belated movement on that front this past year. And as tensions escalate along the Line of Control in Jammu & Kashmir, the churn at little facility in northern India couldn’t be more welcome.

    Straight up, in less than two months, the Army gets to start replacing its patkas and standard issue Model 1974 infantry combat helmets, both deemed inadequate for the surge in scale and breadth of operations Indian soldiers have had thrust on them. The new combat helmets that the Army will begin taking deliveries of in August will be its first in a quarter century. The first lot of the 1,58,000 ballistic helmets built outside Kanpur by Indian firm MKU will be shipped to infantry and counter-insurgency units, expectedly starting with battalions based in Jammu & Kashmir.

    Livefist had the opportunity to visit MKU’s production facilities last month to inspect the high tempo run that’s been supplying to foreign militaries, paramilitaries and police services for years. And now speeding up to meet the Indian Army’s delivery schedules — its first such order from the Indian armed forces.

    MKU’s Mukut ballistic helmets are manufactured at an integrated MKU facility at Malwan in Uttar Pradesh’s Fatehpur district, about 40 minutes from the industrial hub of Kanpur. Starting with bales of KEVLAR that MKU sources from three international suppliers, to final integration with communication sets (50,000 of the 1,58,000 helmets will be commander configuration with in-built COMMS kits), the Malwan unit is currently building customized versions of the Mukut helmet on its primary production line, with ongoing production continuing for foreign customers, including Chile, Spain and Malaysia.

    The helmets are a bolted variant of MKU’s flagship Mukut ballistic combat helmet. The latter, MKU says, are more expensive but significantly stronger, with uniform ballistic protection that ‘minimizes lethal injuries due to helmet shell compromise’. As part of their proving phase, the new helmet design has been tested at HP White Labs in the U.S. and MKU’s own ballistics testing facility in Germany. Apart from ballistic protection from rounds, MKU says the Mukut helmet being supplied to the Army also sports a Behind Armour Blunt Trauma (BABT) of less than 10mm, ‘nearly 40% lower in comparison’ to the Model 1974 currently in service, and a compelling factor for the headgear upgrade. The strengths (and weaknesses) of the new helmets are necessarily classified, though Livefist can confirm that the Army has opted for the new kit based on a variety of factors: principally strength, but also coverage (head top, sides and back), robust fit with memory foam padding that rules out the need for constant adjustments (dangerous in an active combat scenario) and the ability to take on accessories.

    While the Indian Army hasn’t opted for MKU’s Multiple Accessory Connector System (a proprietary integrated, all-in-one mounting system for NVD, torches, cameras, masks and communication headsets), it has the option to procure them as an add-on. MKU, incidentally, is also in the race for a large Indian Army night vision device (NVD) order, for over 44,000 devices, and has plans to diversify into electro-opticals for air land land platforms, thermal imagers, weapon sights, medium caliber ammunition and even assault/sniper rifles.

    The 1,58,000 helmets ordered by the Indian Army are only a fraction of what the the force will finally need across its units. MKU managing director Neeraj Gupta hopes to more than quadruple the company’s order for the 700,000 helmets he says the Army will finally require. Overall, the company sees business for more than a million helmets across the variants it builds them in — for police, paratroopers, tank crews, airborne troops and special forces.

    MKU currently also competes with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) for the Indian Army’s biggest buy of bulletproof jackets in decades — for 1.86 lakh units. Look out for Livefist’s post on that contest shortly.

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...armys-1st-new-combat-helmets-in-25-years.html

    @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Agent_47 @Hellfire @Levina @VCheng @MilSpec @randomradio @Vergennes

    So, Mukut it is (confirmed now). But without the MACS (it's a simple add-on, so no problem...precisely why I loved that setup in the first place) -

     
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  10. Vergennes

    Vergennes Strategist Staff Member MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It was about time I would say. New helmets,new body armors,Indian soldier's gear is improving,slowly but surely. Not to add the Indian MoD can rely on high quality equipments made by local groups,which even exported their products to many countries around the world.

    What's the model of the new body armor ? Have deliveries started ?
     
  11. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    I don't know for sure...but we'll keep this thread updated with such new developments.
     
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  12. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This is Pattka Helmet. Have interacted with the soldier, and they like it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It is fine for a head shot which hits only along the circumference of the head, but the 'crown' of the skull, the occiput, is compromised as it butts above the upper edge of the plate.

    Lt Navdeep Singh, AC (Posthumous), 15 MARATHA LI (KIA 20 Aug 2011) was unlucky in this precise area as the bullet hit the edge and deflected upwards into the exposed occiput. In the same action, a head shot from 10 meters sustained by his JCO from an AK-74, resulted in a hit in dead centre of the forehead on the plate, thereby protecting him from a fatal wound.

    Although the plate disintegrated due to proximity and extremely high KE and got lodged in his skull, miraculously still there. JCO is alive.
     
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  14. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I also expressed that doubt, since from the top there is zero protection, but he said actually the hitting on the face posibility is much more that hitting from the top and this gear provide the protection of the forehead. But, the armour is very strong, and believed to protect the fatal injury even from the AK-47 bullet from the distance. This head gear actually gives more visual view, because the full covering older helmet, keeps on slipping, and sometimes obstruct the view.

    Also, not so close relative of me posted in the Border, is happy with the INSAS rifle. In many articles and forum, we discussed that it is very heavy, but he seems happy with 5.5 MM rounds, and says the heavy wt, and long barrel actually makes it more accurate, gives more range, and less recoil, actually proves that it is a good Battle riffle. Problem I think is in the quality of the manufacturing, which is crude. Actually the soldiers adapts to whatever they are provided. Their are many more details, which could not be disclosed in the open forum.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    That is an ideal confrontation, wherein you are standing face to face. That is an unlikely scenario, and I am very sure that I would want to be a very small target when actually engaged in CQB. Hence, I shall be prone, thereby, leaving the 'crown' of my head exposed and unprotected. I have given you the exact problem when I quoted the Lt Navdeep incident, the young officer was prone and behind a stone when a bullet from an angle to his right, hit the edge above the ear, the edge got bent and the deflection of bullet pushed it into the protruding occiput.



    There is no armour in patka, just a metallic plate.

    As for the helmet, that is a good one too. Provided you have the fit. The problem is, these are not personal issue and are indeed sector stores, which you leave once you move from one organisation to another. That is a rather pathetic thing to do. In my firm belief, a weapon and a helmet and basic protective equipment should be issued to the soldier on his joining and should be his responsibility throughout. But that is not happening.

    I have maintained that INSAS is a good and very accurate weapon - on firing range. It is pathetic in CQB. It is also pathetic in burst mode. Tends to have firing pin breakages in sustained three round burst fire. That is not something I want in war.

    Soldier does not adapt. When you deprive a soldier of a good weapon and provide only one, what would he do? It is like chocolates being given in high altitude locations in ration. Pathetic living conditions as no hardened shelter provided with heating for forces in high altitude regions in LC environment, but he gets happy with a dumb chocolate !!!!
     
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