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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    F16, F18, Gripen - Other Make In India LWF - news and possibilities



    Moody’s: Watch for Lockheed and Boeing to get more aggressive with fighter jets sales to India

    Sep 29, 2016, 7:19am EDT
    Industries & Tags
    Manufacturing,
    Defense,
    Aerospace,
    International Business
    James Bach Staff Reporter Washington Business Journal

    • While India may have signed a deal Friday with French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation SA for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets, credit analyst firm Moody’s Investors Service expects U.S. fighter jet makers like The Boeing Co. (NYSE: BA) and Lockheed Martin Corp. (NYSE: LMT) to begin more aggressively pursuing India as a sales opportunity.

      As Moody’s aerospace and defense analyst Russell Solomon told me Wednesday, India likely isn’t done buying fighters. Even if India decides to exercise an option against the Rafale contract for 18 more, in the next five to 10 years Solomon said, “Somewhere between another 100 to 200 fighters is not out of the realm of possibilities in terms of the needs that we see for India.”

      [​IMG] Enlarge
      As India and the U.S. work to deepen military ties, that could be good news for U.S.… more

      as evidenced by a military logistics agreement signed by the two nations in August. To this point, U.S. international sales to India have been hamstrung by concerns over technology transfers and production sharing.

      “The regulatory restrictions being eased is having some influence and that will make the U.S. companies more competitive when [India comes] with the next round of bids,” Solomon told me.

      from 21 percent of overall revenue to 25 percent, for example. The move is in part to counter what have been flat to declining U.S. defense budgets over the last few years.

      “For the last several years as the Department of Defense business has been winding down with the retrenchment from the Middle East … everybody is looking for a bigger share of a shrinking pie, effectively, in terms of global military spending,” Solomon said.

      At the same time, “India has been for some time very much in need of beefing up its own security and defense platforms.”


     
  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    This thread is for all the news on another line F16, F18, Gripen ect

    Pls use this thread and not post in other threads at all
     
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  3. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    FA 18 Super Hornet, Saab Gripen and F-16 E/F: none of them achieved the IAF requirements and so never reached the final MRCA Evaluation round.
     
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  4. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    yes a strong possibility..

    but would like to keep all such news under 1 thread for sometime instead of all that getting into Rafale and LSA threads..Its for collation and a much better discussion..
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Rafale will get MII contract. But we will be choosing a second jet as well, a single engine jet.
     
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  6. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Good idea (this thread)
     
  7. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    ‘Rafale deal not a setback for Saab’s Gripen jet’
    NAYANIMA BASU
    COMMENTS (2) · PRINT · T+

    [​IMG]
    MATS PALMBERG Vice-President, Industrial Partnerships, Saab Aeronautics




    We want to take the Make in India route: Mats Palmberg



    Swedish aerospace giant Saab AB, which is planning to manufacture here its most advanced multi-role fighter Gripen NG, says that it does not see India’s decision to procure French Rafale jets as a set back.

    Mats Palmberg, Vice-President, Industrial Partnerships, Saab Aeronautics, in an interview withBusinessLine says he finds the Indian market quite promising. Excerpts:


    How hopeful are you in selling the Gripen to India?

    I think the Indian market is quite promising and it is our firm belief that the proposal we have, which includes ‘Make In India’ building indigenous capability in all areas and the product itself is very well suited to fulfil the operational needs. We are confident, we understand there will be competition of course but we have a strong belief that we have a good solution.

    Gripen fighters lost the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) bidding in 2011 to French Rafale. What makes you optimistic now?

    I think the Indian side has now evolved in their approach and they are also taking a more mature approach through the ‘Make In India’ campaign. I think that would make us more successful in this perspective regardless of losing out the last time. And of course, we have continued to develop the product.

    India recently bought 36 French Rafale jets although the original MMRCA deal got scrapped. Do you see it as a setback?

    No. I think there is demand enough for fighters in India.

    How do you plan to pursue your proposal with the Indian government for Gripen?

    We have to continue to explain what we can provide. We have to be able to sell our concept to the Indian people. Discussions are going on.

    When did the discussions for procuring Gripen resume after you lost the bid?

    Discussions have been going on for quite sometime. Of course the big steps have been taken when our Prime Minister (Stefan Lofven) met the Indian Prime Minister in February. Before that the Indian President visited Sweden last year, so all this is encouraging. Many discussions are going on in many different areas which also support our ideas.

    What if the Indian government decides to buy the Gripen off the shelf as it did in the case of Rafale instead of producing it in India?

    We can live with both. But as I said, we are trying to grow our company. We are trying to grow our industrial presence in the world so we are totally happy to take the ‘Make in India’ road and even the government will be keen on that.

    How do you plan to address the offset issue?

    We plan to address offsets through our Make in India approach and that is to be understood through that. It should satisfy the Indian industry’s needs. Increasing Indian participation is part of our approach.

    Do you find the new Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) useful?

    The DPP is good but we would like to see how the Strategic Partnerships plays out as that will help us plan at a later stage.

    Do you have plans for 100 per cent foreign direct investment in India at a later stage?

    I think it is advantageous to team up with good Indian companies to do business in India. It is good for India and good for us. We need partners that understand India and have local knowledge.

    With the recent expose on Indian defence deals which were inked six-seven years back, does it worry you?

    It concerns us to the extent that the people we work with have to be clean. We have to work with people that are transparent and reliable.

    But you think big Indian defence players like Tata, Reliance and Mahindra have the wherewithal to support this kind of a programme by the Gripen?
    Well to a certain extent they have. But we have to play the key role because we know the product and how it works. But they are quick learners.

    What about infrastructure support for the Gripen programme?

    Setting up the facility is a huge task but it is simple compared to building a supply chain. But I have good faith in finding industrial supplier — supplier of components and machine parts, tools. And they don’t have to be in the same place where we will be present. But of course, the logistics system will play a role here. The industrial corridor between Mumbai and Delhi gives us hope.

    (This article was published on October 7, 2016)

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/logistics/economy/article9198612.ece
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    @PARIKRAMA

    You see this part. The Gripen deal is being handled at the highest level within the Swedish govt. A lot of stuff has already been decided in Feb-March. Particularly notable is Parrikar's recent visit.

    Discussions have been going on for quite sometime. Of course the big steps have been taken when our Prime Minister (Stefan Lofven) met the Indian Prime Minister in February.


    @vstol jockey
    Take note
     
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  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I am well aware of what is happening. But in last few days I have been able to find investors for LSA. I am no more dependent on Imported Air force and MOD. I have in fact told this to top boss. He is shocked.
     
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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    That's brilliant. You cleared the biggest roadblock. Indian or foreign investors? No harm done if you don't want to reveal it.

    I'm glad you are no longer constrained by the MoD or IAF. If you actually build a prototype, IAF will actually have to look at your offer very seriously.
     
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  11. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Well, good luck. The LSA seem like the longest shot, and the one I find the most interesting, personally. By that I mean I'm curious about whether the physical airplane would be as good as the paper airplane promises (forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical on that) and the only way this curiosity is ever going to be satisfied is if you are successful in getting it at least to the prototype stage. So, good luck, I hope you get it built. :)
     
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  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    This is partially an incorrect news now being spun in a big way as part of the marketing campaign.. Recall post Fadnavis visit to Sweden and then a Maharashtra Event in Feb2016. It was covered in PDF by me as well.. Here were the details

    Posted in Feb 21, 2016

    ++++
    Some information on Source based news on Gripen Bid...
    ++++
    • Sweden PM Stefan Lofven had a small talk with PM NaMo when both met in Mumbai for MII inauguration program. Both were joined by Saab CEO Hakan Bushke.
    • Saab has offered to partner with an Indian company in a JV with Saab investing 49% to develop on the product line Gripen NG further and finish the product with Indian side inputs and requirements.
    • This finished product will commence the final production in India and also plan for a naval variant after that.
    • This product will require a full so called 100% Technology transfer from Sweden to India for which Sweden government will allow Saab as well as provide them with taxation relief as they have done for Gripen project
    • The technology transfer will be for the product line Gripen NG or Gripen E not for earlier models in any manner.
    • PM Lofven and Saab CEO Hakan Bushke has appraised PM NaMo that Indian light fighter requirements is almost 400 and Gripen new product with Indian inputs can parallely supply and meet 50% of this requirement or 200 light fighter jets easily
    • Further to this, PM Lofven has said in front of Saab chief Bushke to PM NaMo that Saab will use G2G route to sell of other products in the field of Surveillance, Electronic Warfare systems, and battle management systems for IAF as well as IN plus an added impetus for ICG for coastal security systems.
    • Also it was said that Saab already has multiple partnership in India as part of making a pyramid supply chain of ensuring component manufacturing in India to sub assembly level and will expand it further once Saab project of Gripen in India starts to ensure Indian MIC makes everything from component to sub assembly to assembly level things
    • These partnership includes renowned names like Pipavav Defence, Bharat Electronics, HAL , Kalyani Strategic Systems and Ashok Leyland. The other smaller players are also there


    upload_2016-10-9_0-52-7.png
    http://defence.pk/threads/dassault-...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-161#post-8173308

    I can assure you shukla is going bonkers with its utter useless and crap shit point of journalism. The LWF fighter choice is now plain as morning daylight sun under clear skies. LCA MK1A itself is now a delayed project which i had said before in the other forum. SO clearly a LWF need comes out. The choices are
    1. LSA
    2. Gripen E/F not Gripen D
    3. F16 Block 70/72 which may be in fact replaced by a new bid of Block 80+ with newer onboard computers or later offered as MLU
    4. LCA Mk2 inhouse

    The bid which will win will be the one which either gives us engine tech as part of the package or uses the Safran Kaveri Engine in the fleet with recertification.
    The winning LWF also needs to use the weapon systems available from teh common pool and Make In India Weapon Manufacturings from the likes of Rafael and later MBDA. Again the package of Derby, DerbyER, Python 5, Brimstone, Meteor, Spice and other such combinations gives the more comfort zone to Gripen E over F16. But dark horse is the LSA. I can say IAF is not against this idea but their are people against LSA internally in other departments. @vstol jockey knows them and he already identified the major roadblocks who either wants their palms greased and some who genuinely are skeptical due to plan being on paper and nothing in prototype stage to show what LSA is all about.

    So bascially if you see its a 7 months old news rehashed now..
     
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  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ke-single-engine-fighters-116100800638_1.html

    A global contest has restarted for supplying India a medium, multi-role fighter, with the Indian Air Force(IAF) inviting top international fighter jetmanufacturers to set up a production facility in India.

    Business Standard has learned that Indian embassies in Washington, Moscow and Stockholm wrote on Friday to fighter jet manufacturers in these countries to confirm whether they would partner an Indian company in building a medium, single-engine fighter, with significant transfer of technology to the Indian entity.

    The confidential document sent by the embassies is not technically a “Request for Information” (RFI), which is a precursor to a “Request for Proposals” (also known as a tender). However, it serves the same purpose, which is to determine which vendors are interested and what they are willing to offer.

    By specifying that the IAF requires a single-engine fighter, the latest letter differs from an earlier tender, issued in 2007, for 126 medium, multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). TheMMRCA tender, which had no such stipulation, saw six vendors fielding four twin-engine and two single-engine fighters. The twin-engine offerings included Dassault’s Rafale,Eurofighter GmbH’s Typhoon, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and RAC MiG’s MiG-35. The single-engine fighters offered were Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN Super Viper and Saab’s Gripen D.

    The much-hyped MMRCA tender eventually collapsed, with the IAF last month buying a token 36 Rafale fighters. Now, the IAF has kicked off a more focused contest that will feature only single-engine fighters.

    Numerous airpower experts have pointed out that the IAF needs single-engine fighters to replace the single-engine MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters that must be retired in the near future. The Rafale, a medium-heavy, twin-engine fighter, is too expensive for operational tasks that a single-engine fighter can easily manage.

    While Boeing, Eurofighter, RAC MiG, Sukhoi and Dassault would technically be able to respond to the latest RFI, none of them can offer a state-of-the-art, medium, single-engine fighter. Therefore, it seems likely that New Delhi would have to choose between Saab’sGripen E and Lockheed Martin’s latest F-16 Block 70.

    As Business Standard reported earlier, both Saab and Lockheed Martin have kicked off high-stakes, high-voltage campaigns to meet the IAF’s needs. Both have already submitted what the IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha described on Thursday as “unsolicited bids” for building their fighters in India.

    Saab has linked its offer with assistance to the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) development programme, which is being spearheaded by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a unit of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

    Saab has offered to help ADA in quickly developing the Tejas Mark IA, which the IAF chief said required four improvements — a better combat radar, more lethal weapons, dedicated electronic warfare capability and better maintainability. He said the upgradedTejas should fly within three-four years.

    Saab has also offered to help ADA develop the planned next-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

    Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin is pushing an offer, made through the Indo-US Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), to shift its F-16 production line from Fort Worth, Texas to India.

    A new, more advanced version of the F-16, designated the Block 70, has been offered to entice India.

    Air Headquarters insiders say there is little chance of India buying the F-16, a significantly advanced version of the Block 50/52 that the Pakistan Air Force operates. Since Washington is aware of this important bias, it remains to be seen whether the US seizes this opportunity to offer India the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a state-of-the-art fifth-generation fighter.

    The IAF is keeping an open mind. On Thursday, Raha stated: “I’m sure whoever gives the best deal [will win]. All the aircraft are very capable, so it will depend upon who provides the best transfer of technology; and, of course, the price tag. It’s on the table; nothing is decided as yet.”
     
  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Prasun answers to the above Shukla news bomb as

    [​IMG] Prasun K. Sengupta said...

    To AVI D:

    What was issued on October 8, 2016 was a RESTRICTED RFI for a single-engined light MRCA. That same RFI was also issued to ADA & ADA will offer the Tejas Mk.2. If a foreign design is selected, that will be the end of the Tejas MRCA's R & D programme. The Tejas Mk.1A or whatever else be its designation, as long as it makes use of the existing Tejas Mk.1 airframe design, it will be a sub-optimal integrated weapons platform no matter how beautifully it flies & enthrals all the fanboys. That the 'techies' at ADA have completely failed to design a functional & effective weapons platform is no longer in doubt & if a 4.5-generation can't amanate from ADA, then what's the guarantee that a 5th-generation AMCA will be a complete success? No wonder no R & D funding has been released so far for the AMCA. So now, in order to cover-up the DRDO's mother-of-all national embarrassment, i.e. the Tejas LCA R & D project, all kinds of idiotic & therefore indefensible excuses are being offered, such as Saab helping ADA with the Tejas Mk.2 & AMCA, when it is evident that the shareholders of Saab will never agree to any proposal for creating any competitor (like the Tejas Mk.2) to the Gripen NG. And why should a light MRCA like Tejas Mk.1 be made to drop 1,000lb bombs (if Cmde Balagi's anmswers to Kindergarten-level questions posed by Shekhar Gupta are to be believed)?
     
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  15. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    A single engine competition? Don't forget Serbia! They're apparently trying to resurrect the Novi Avion...



    :p
     
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