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F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The fate of LCA and AMCA are not tied to this deal

    But IAF's fate depends on this deal

    We dont want a plane with Limited Abilities
     
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  2. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    SO what is the hurry ; let us keep talking while Moving forward on Rafale MII
     
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  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Something like the swiss leak about technical test may occur....
    It can broke any SE tender.
     
  4. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Pls be my guest, it only mean more Rafale after all...
     
  5. Sahil ecclstone

    Sahil ecclstone FULL MEMBER

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    If we want to rent uncle sams power cant we do so by buying a lot more UCAVs? Or doing ins vishal with their help? Which will also add a lot of meat ($$$) to the relationship?
     
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  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    I wonder what variants they are comparing, I can all but guarentee this is obfuscation, I would bet my house that that flight hour cost is comparing different mission profiles (obviously favouring Gripen) and irrelevent models (100% not the E/F or F-16 Blk.70).

    SAAB are the masters of propoganda.
     
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  7. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    If you want USA power, why not buy 4-8 ships from USA shipyard and arm it with Aegis System?

    I am sure POTUS wants more jobs in American Shipyards..
    You can get all 8 ships in less than 5 years easily and just the name Aegis will make all of the ppl sweat in fear even if its just in paper.
     
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  8. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA i wish your words see day light atleast

    Too fulfil IAF - 72 to 90 rafale
    Too fulfil usa for support for nsg waiver, mtcr,nsg, against, wa and intelligence access - f16


    My only question is budget. If they implement capital expenditure carry forward next year scheme it will be helpful
     
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  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    I wish this were true but it's sadly not; every F-16 India buys is one (or two) less LCAs that willbe ordered and the F-16 order will invariably lead to India buying the F-35 down the road and then you can kiss the AMCA goodbye.
     
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  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    As things stand I fear the Rafale MII is taking a backseat to the SPM/SE jet deal.
     
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  11. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LCA MK 1 A and MK 2 future is totally in DRDO 's hand

    AMCA is tied to PAK FA ; PAK FA will be a great plane

    Russians know it ; that is why they are hesitant to part with all Technology
    because we will use it in AMCA
     
  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    IF this were to occur the GoI would reign down hellfire on anyone involved in the leak, is anyone in the Indian Mil willing to take the risk? I would wager not.
     
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  13. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major IDF NewBie

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    Agree to disagree bro, there is a clear historical precedent; once a nation is put on the US's "teet" it doesn't go back and its domestic industry suffers. Look to the UK, Japan, Israel and Canada for examples.
     
  14. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    What matters in air combat? Two words. Situational Awareness. What does situational awareness mean?

    Here is the following definition. Situational Awareness is the ability to identify, process, and comprehend the critical elements of information about what is happening to the team with regards to the mission. More simply, it's knowing what is going on around you.

    Why is this the most important thing in air combat? Because he who sees first wins. Quote from WW2 British RAF pilot. "Surprise and height trump numbers every time." Basically when you spot your enemy and he does not spot you you win. He who sees first wins. This has never been more true in the era of BVR fights. Missiles allow you to engage far beyond reach. An airplane doesn't have to dogfight or maneuver to get a kill anymore. You can hit a fighter 70 +km away. 99% of the time a pilot doesn't even know he's getting targeted.

    The best way to describe this is the kill chain as follows.
    • Find: Locate the target.
    • Fix: Fix their location; or make it difficult for them to move.
    • Track: Monitor their movement.
    • Target: Select an appropriate weapon or asset to use on the target to create desired effects.
    • Engage: Apply the weapon to the target
    • Assess: Evaluate effects of the attack, including any intelligence gathered at the location.

    Fifth gen planes excels at both denying and using the kill chain the most important aspect of the kill chain the "Find," Explained below.

    Find your enemy. He who sees first wins. Stealth seeks to make it harder/impossible to detect an aircraft. What people often misunderstand is even if a stealth fighter can be detected by a radar or whatever it means the fifth generation plane still has a massive advantage over a fourth generation plane. Any radar that can detect a fifth generation plane can detect a fourth generation plane even earlier. Think of a modern fight in air like a sniper battle. Hide, don't get spotted, spot the enemy.

    But that's not the only aspect that makes fifth generation planes revolutionary. Fifth generation planes have advanced sensors that make it easier to spot enemy combatants thus improving your situational awareness. What are some of these examples?

    #1) 360 all spectrum awareness. Can't speak for the T-50 or J-20, but the F-35 has six cameras that can see MWIR spectrum is all directions. Enabling the plane to track all targets land sea or air in all angles. Furthering this the F-35 "code," automatically detects threats and classifies them based a on a weapons database integrated into the software. How does this improve situational awareness? More information, faster information, more accurate information allows for better and quicker decision making.

    #2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q65qOl1tM Here is an example of the F-35 EOTS.

    3) Sensor fusion and data link. Yes the Rafale and Typhoon both have features similar to this, but none of them are on the level of F-22 and F-35. An example of this is here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kSAU9PuRY8 F-35 sensors are used to help intercept a cruise missile. Or this. http://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/sm-6_first_of_a_kind.html The F-35 is able to control and command the SM-6 which is a super long range missile. This means even when the F-35 has run out of missiles and bombs it still plays a major role in a fight as a force multiplier. Sensor fusion and datalink make payload less relevant.

    Stealth seeks to deny situational awareness to the enemy. All I can say is the F-22 is roughly 0.0001 RCS, while the F-35 is even smaller. How long will stealth last? Dunno, but as said above, any radar that can track a stealth plane can track an normal plane even further out.

    Speed an manoeuvrability are important, but they are becoming less important with every generation. The first combat planes depended on speed and maneuverability. All combat was machine gun close range. With the invention of the radar and A2A missile, speed an manoeuvrability became even less important. Dogfighting becomes less important and kills are less and less via planes cannon and more about long range missiles. Stealth, long range radars and super long range missiles like the meteor make dogfighting almost non relevant.

    It's always thought that faster, agile, and bigger payloads are all that matter, but that's what makes a fifth generation plane different. Those concepts are tosses out the window. Best explained here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0&t=545s
     
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  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    A retired general....
     
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